I, Me, Myself on the political angle to the Dera Sacha Sauda controversy, and a personal recollection. “Then, one day, while he was at the Dera premises, he was poisoned and his corpse delivered home in a tractor-trolley on the next. The father, the devout follower that he was, refused to file a case of murder with the police and also forbade the rest of the family from doing so.”
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Dera Sacha Sauda is a pious institution. I am here for some years. Such thing never happened. All this is an attempt to defame the pious institution. That’s all.
My grandfather’s cousin was poisoned at the Dera in 1982.
I’m sure that this can be established if my family decides to open a police investigation even today.
I hope you have the right information about the organisation. Because blaming someone for Murder might take you to court or is it your personal wish to get famous by the current fire against the religious body ?
I am absolutely confident and it is I and my family who have not yet chosen to take anyone to court for 25 years, rather than the other way round. It is we who did not file a complaint with the police.
By the way, the Dera and its followers are already in the dock for murder, rape and much else, as reported widely in the media, and the truth will be brought out very soon, I hope, for all to see.
I don’t know how many people realise the trauma that a family goes through when a member is murdered.
If it was my wish to get famous, all I had to do was to simply call a press conference and been on most television news channels and newspaper front pages by now.
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Hello,
This in in response to Mukesh kumar and Divaker. I know Dera chief through the fach that his son is married to Harminder Jassi, an MLA and his daughter is married to son of Prof. Gurdas Sidhu from Bathinda who is from my mother’s village. I also know their spokesman Aditya Insaan.
The people running this Dera are criminals and have gotten lots of wealth, power. Though, I do not whether the entire management is like that. I have few questions that people should think about. If the dera chief is spiritual, why does he need Mercedez cars ? If the dera is peaceful, why do they need security and are distributing weapons to its followers ?
The word ’sacha sauda’ comes from Guru Nanak whose father gave him money to do business and instead he gave that oney to the poor that is scaha sauda, what is the dera doing for poor ?
This dera ia cult and should be banned.
Pyari sadh-sangat ji, as you are very well aware of the disturbance and turmoil created by Sikh Community just in the name of dress code & ‘Jaam-E-Insan’ and all this have hurt the sentiments of our satsangi brothers who are in every corner of the world in the number of crores. But everybody, who is a true devotee of Dera Sacha Sauda, knows that there was no imitation of dress and jaam-ceremony performed by Hazoor Pita Ji and Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Infact, Dera has been made a target of some bad elements who are full of revenge, discord and jealousy of the growing popularity of Dera. Today some people in Sikh Community are seen quarelling in the name of religion and all this is encouraged by those misled persons who want power and money at any cost. Whether they may be the selfish politicians or the drug mafias who suffered loss in their business when the people, inspired by the preachings of Hazoor Pita Ji, left every type of addiction and evil. They may be the so-called religious leaders who fill their pockets by the offerings and donations given by innocent and ignorant people in the name of God, and all satsangis have stopped this practice as PitaJi strongly asserts that God is not hungry of anybody’s money, He is the supreme power. But some anti-social elements befool common people, drag them in the fire of communal riots and relish the whole devastating scenario standing aside. What else should it be called other than ‘kalyug’ or ‘the horrible age’ in which pious souls are defamed by mean politicians. The Akalis are degrading themselves by burning effigies of PitaJi, abusing and insulting the pious photos of PitaJi, creating fear among satsangi brothers with brandish swords and burning their homes and Deras and much more. This is really intolerable for any devotee of Dera Sacha Sauda but still our satsangis are moving ahead on the path of non-violence as preached by Hazoor PitaJi and enthusiastically organizing blood donation camps, taking oath to donate whole body after death and the body parts like the kidney, liver, bone marrow alive.
True saints are always firm like a rock and so their words too. As Param PitaJi had said once:
“Jise Satguru Ji apni nazar mehar se pooran karte hain aur unse woh kaam lete hain jiske liye duniya wale soch bhi nahin sakte.” So whatever is happening, is the plays of God, which the worldly people can’t understand practically. A true devotee is the one who has firm belief in his Satguru and nobody can move him from his righteous and truthful path. It has always happened since the ages ago, when anyone tried to eradicate evils and establish a healthy and religious society, the evil or negative forces always stood against him, tried to crush him but truth always remains unaffected. As an elephant moves, the dogs bark, but the elephant remains unaffected and keeps on moving gracefully.
One can never forget the precious vachans uttered by Pita Ji time and again:
“Je Banda Aakhe Tera Haan, Te Ghaat Nahin Rehandi Bande Noo” means if one dedicates oneself completely to the Almighty then God also fills one’s life with His innumerable blessings and there remains no lacking. But our Lord is so benevolent that without asking anything in return He has always been showering His blessings upon us. So it is the time for hollow persons to show their back and run away but for any devoted person it is time to express his true love, feeling of sacrifice and devotion towards his Lord. History witnesses – Ultimately truth wins and the evil-doers surrender and plead for forgiveness. So there remains no space for any doubt or fear as our Lord is Pooran (Perfect). Whosoever maintains complete trust in his Satguru, the Satguru takes care and stands by him forever.
Remember: Sacha Sauda has always true to its name, its ultimate aim lies in spreading the message of God which is the true service to humanity. And it shall continue to forge ahead and progress in its mission under the superb guidance and surveillance of His Holiness ‘Saint Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh Ji Insan’.
“Saare Jahan Mein Hoga Ek Hi Naam
Shah Satnam, Shah Satnam…………”
Dera sacha sauda, its obviously a cult. The indian govt has something to do with this, most likely. They probably told the leader to piss off the sikhs, so that sikhs can be labeled as terrorists/criminals, and the indian government can once again attack the sikhs, just like in 1984.
waheguru ki khalsa waheguru ji fateh
i am not agree the ranjodh he is only brainwashed person every relgion got on way of belive none of the relgion say belive in the dera people who do not trust there mind. or weak thinking they go on dera
i would like to advice to all sikh sangat
sab sikhon ko hukam hai guru manio grath
It is amazing Mr. Ranjodh thinks that DSS chief is a lord ? If the DSS chief is the ultimate truth, why does he need to copy other religions ?
Anyway Ranjodh fails to answer any of the questions I raised, instead he’s talking his own stuff.
i want to answer Mr. Dhillon that why has it amazed you if some body is thinking Dera chief as a lord…….
Is it not the fundamental right of a citizen of india to have his independent thinking ?
True lord is one who shows right path and follows it himself. He doesn’t ask for any favour(money or land etc) from his followers in return of his numerous blessings.
he preaches earning money through hard work(not through corruption) , love all religions and follow the teachings
of religion(not just showing the symbols of religion)
dera strongly believes in “manas ki jaat sabh ako pehchanvo”
when all are manas(human beings) then from where comes
the question of copying any religion?
dera mein sabhi dharmo ki teachings par amal karaya jata
hai. buraiyon ko chudaya jata hai, isliye burai se jude logo ko apna vajood khatam hota dikhai de raha hai aur voh
sant ji par gande aaroop laga rahe hai..
aisa to yugo se chalta aa raha hai
par ant mein jeet sachai ki hoti hai .
aaj samaj mein kisi ke bolne se koi nasha nahi chodta
par dera mein koi bhi nashedi 7days ke ander(sewa karte hue) nasha chod deta hai ,kya yeh kahin aur sambhav hai.
satsang mein guruji ke ek avahaan par hajaro log cigrattes ,bidi, jarda etc ke packets jeb se nikal kar
phek dete hai, kya kisi sadharan aadmi ke kehne se aisa
koi nashedi aisa karta hai.
sach to yeh hai ki agar duniya mein kahin koi sacha guru
hai to woh yahi par hai.
Well i have read the views of all of you and all i can say is People have a lack of knowledge about the Dera. People are saying what they have got to know from other people…..i must tell u dear, if there is any truth in these kinda cases then y cant CBI submit their report from the past 5 years???
I got naamdaan in 1994 and since then i am visiting the Dera every month and that too alone! i never find such kinda incidence occurring there.
and Dhillon Bhai i think u have some kind of personal enemity with Dera, or Aditya Insaan ji, thats y you are saying this…i am damn sure if he will read your message he’ll burst into laughter…coz it seems like its been written by a kid…who got angry from his parents coz they refused to buy the toy he was willing to buy :)
Please check this out.
http://abhishekahuja.sulekha.com/blog/post/2007/05/a-day-at-dera-sacha-sauda-sirsa-haryana.htm
I found this interesting link. Check it out.
http://abhishekahuja.sulekha.com/blog/post/2007/05/a-day-at-dera-sacha-sauda-sirsa-haryana.htm
I agree with views of Sneha, people do not have knowledge how welfare activities Dera Sacha Sauda is doing. No one even mention that Dera has saved thousands of lives by way of Blood donation and other welfare activities. If we look at history It happens with every true Saint is opposed by Powers of Kaal to stop the parchar of truth. But always truth won and same will be proved in near future. The people writing against Dera are basically under the influence of Kaal that’s why they are writing fabricated and false stories to defame the pious organisation.
This person might be doing all the welfare activities but as far as being religious is concerned he doesn’t know a,b,c of religion, u can tell just by looking at his fat face. This person is a politician. Poor people who follow him need some hope and he is exploiting that.
I agree with ‘CONFUSED’, but at the same time I do question the authenticity of the incident mentioned in the blog. Just as it is possible for a user to post different comments with different IDs, it is very much possible for any anti DSS person(in this case, our author) to write about just anything. And the same article has been posted at a number of sites, as I have verified that…..WHAT IS THE CREDIBILITY OF THE MATTER BEING PUBLISHED BY YOU HERE AS WELL AS IN OTHER SITES???
I would request you to stop playing this dirty game here on the internet.
IT IS 100% SURE THAT YOU HAVE COOKED UP THE STORY, although i am not sure whether the motives are political or personal, or may be you are feeling insecurity for Sikhism. The fact is that DSS respects each religion and is not against any, infact it is taught to follow one’s own religion.
I promise to sponser your entire trip for a visit to DSS in case you want to see the truth for yourself(IN CASE YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO ). Have the guts to come and see it for yourself.
ANYBODY OUT THERE IS WELCOME FOR THIS OFFER.
Kahibe ko shobha nahin, dekhat hi parwaan.
Regards,
Insaan.
Here I am again…see i had told you SidhuSaaheb, that probably your current target of life is to spread this lie about DSS….but my dear brother, I would still pray to God that may he give you the knowledge and power to distinguish between right and wrong, and follow the path of truth, of divinity.
for all those in doubt, please visit the sites of DSS:
http://derasachasauda.in/index.html
http://www.truthandmyth.org/
http://www.shahsatnamjigreens.org/?q=node/25
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dera_Sacha_Sauda
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records/human_body/body_parts/largest_blood_donation.aspx
I also found an interesting link. Please see: http://www.tehelka.com/story_main30.asp?filename=Ne020607Much_vice_CS.asp
I leave it to the discretion of the readers, whether or not to believe what I have written about a personal experience.
i think one should not make any opinion about sidhusaheeb
case without hearing the other party’s points.
he is cooking his own stuff in any way he likes.
I think it is his publicity stunt.
Had his case been solid(if yes actually),he should have moved to court.
Its very very easy blaming anybody in this democratic scenario.
Come on man , don’t cook such non proving stuffs otherwise any intellectual will laugh at you only.
hi all,
may god bless u,who wrote bad thing about DSS because u dont know the greatness of Dera Sacha Sauda Sirsa.
But in future u all we see,
“Saare Jahan Mein Hoga Ek Hi Naam
Shah Satnam, Shah Satnam…………”
A lot has been said and i think now we should stop this issueless chapter.
HI ALL,
GURU…………..
GU….MEANS DARKNESS
RU….MEANS LIGHT
GURU….A PERSON (WHO HIMSELF AWAY FROM ALL EVILS) CAN SHOW THE WAY FROM DARKNESS TO LIGHT.
RAM……
A PERSON WHO IS ABLE TO MAINTAIN MARYADA (MARYADA PARSHOTAM RAM)
RAHIM…….
AS PER MUSLIM COMMUNITY ……A PERSON WHO IS HAVING SOFT CORNER OF HEART (REHAM DIL)
SINGH…..
YOU ALL KNOW ABOUT THE SIKHISM (AWAY FROM FEAR, TEMPTATION ETC….). ONLY GURU IN SIKHISM IS SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI ( SAB SIKHAN KO HUKAM HAI GURU MANYO GRANTH)
NOW THE QUESTION……IS GURMEET SINGH FOLLOWS SIKHISM…….? NOT AT ALL.
SO HE HAS NO RIGHT TO WRITE AFTER HIS NAME “SINGH”
I THINK HE IS INSULTING SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI
KABIR SAAKAT ( WORLDLY PERSON, DEHDHAARI GURU) SANG NA KIJIAY DOORON JAYEEAY BHAAG
THINK……..THINK……….AGAIN THINK
AM I RIGHT ?
DERA is a pious institution. I wonder how some people who have no idea about santmat draw wrong conclusion about DERA and PITAJI. Santmat is beyond understanding human brain. It is based on pure love of almighty.
I fail to understand that if religion, especially the different faiths and sects are ways of reaching the Lord, then why does it lead to creating hatred and even bloodshed. In the Dera controversy, everybody has lost. I now have a bigger belief that religion as long as it remains in the hands of vested interests, would always act as a tool to blind the people from the real issues of equality and justice.
The Dera chief must tell the people that if he is truly religious or saintly as projected by his followers, where is the harm in offering an apology if anybody felt hurt by his actions. Why is he being obstinate.
On the other side the leaders of the Sikhs, must clarify why they feel so threatened by a mortal. Are the foundations of a faith built on unprecedented sacrifices, especially by the Sarbansdani Guru Gobind Singh, so weak that some remote Baba can shake them. How would they explain those unsheathed swords, when Guru Nanak Dev ji, would hold his court.
Hi All,
i want to introduce something here,Shri Akal Takhat is not have high importance than ‘Shri Guru Gobind Singh Ji’,think if Guru ji of Dera felt sorry from ‘Shri Guru Gobind Singh Ji,then contorversy should be stop here,but it is given political colour by someone.
Think,Think, Think………….
The message “Hindu,Muslim,Sikh,Issai sub ek hi malik ke
Bande hai” is given in Dera Sacha Sauda Sirsa.
Well hi all
I want to tell Mr. Rana that dera has already expressed its
apology to Shri guru Gobind singh ji(the founder of pious sikh religion).when he has apologised to the highest power so now whole issue must settle down .but still its flaming.this shows that there is something more to this issue. actually this subject is being blown out of proportion .the point is that this is just a way to ignite hatred against the increasing popularity and growth of dera.i don’t understand why some people are creating hurdles in the path of pious mission of dera ?
probably the teachings of dera are reducing their BUISNESS(that is carried out by taking donations in the name of god).
i am happy that you have agreed to point that real issues of religion are equality , justice ,etc. I hope you have gone through the idea and ideals of dera.It always respects the ideas you mentioned .
DERA PREMIS ARE BEING DENIED THEIR FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS IN PUNJAB
through this section i want to draw your attention towards the difficulties being faced by premis in following their religion.some anti social sikhs are threatening premis by showing their weapons .when dera premis are conducting their regular kiirtan they are not allowed to do so by anti social sikhs.they are being threatened that they will be killed if they dokn’t stop going to dera.the administration doesn’t take any action against them due to the govt. pressure.
as far as i know that it is the FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT OF EVERY CITIZEN OF INDIAN REPUBLIC TO WORSHIP ANY RELIGION OF HIS CHOICE.
i want to ask the human right commission and minority right commkission that why is it sleeping over this
issue?
why is it not taking any action? probably due to fear of govt..
does sikh religion teaches and powers such sikhs to act in that manner?
i don’t think this is written in any religeous text of any religion that you can forbid anybody from following his religion.
then why is this being let happen openly in punjab?
are all the so called intellectuals deaf and blind to all this?
i want to say to anti socials that my dear friends please don’t pollute the sikhism by such nasty doings.
please don’t insult your religion.
please don’t insult your the founders of religion.
Thanks Vaibhav,
I would suggest you to read my post once again. If you could reply to the basic question I have raised in the first paragraph.
Secondly, the Chief of the Dera has apologised to Guru Gobind Singh. But actually the protest is from the Guru’s followers, who have expressed their hurt. Though one may not agree with the form of protest at many places. Brandishing unsheathed swords has no place in a democratic society.
Why could the Chief of the Dera not devise means to assuage the hurt caused to the Sikh community, by some action of his howsoever unintentional it may be. If in a crowded bus you step on the toe of a co-passenger, whom would you go an apaologise to? The person you have hurt or the company which built the bus?
Also would you justify the Political Affairs Wing of the Dera issuing a diktat to the Premis to vote for a particular party. Does it not infringe the basic Right for Franchise guaranteed by the Constitution of India? Why should a religious organisation take sides in partisan electoral politics?
I have gone through the 47 principles that the Dera advocates. Tell me one principle to which that party adheres to. Do the members of that party not consume alcohol or meat? Dont they use surnames? Dont they practice dowry? Have they never discriminated against or expolited women? Dont they indulge in corruption, nepotism and favortism? You may place all the 47 before you and inform me and others about a single principle, which that party follows.
I am sure you would counter it by citing the example of the misuse of the SGPC funds and infrastructure by another political party. My question is - do two wrongs make a right?
Moreover you need to brush up your history lessons. The Sikh religion was founded by Guru Nanak Devji and not Guru Gobind Singh. That is why I referred to the Court of Guru Nanak Devji in my last para of the previous post.
You must also keep in mind the liberal Punjabi tradition, which has not only granted space to the Dera to flourish, but has welcomed other faiths, including the various shades of Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Islam, Sikhism, Christianity, Arya Samaj, Bramho Samaj, Radha Soami, Namdhari and various other Deras. The list goes on.
A few people on either side, the Dera Sacha Sauda and the hardline Sikhs, are unnecessarily holding the entire Punjab to ransom. The people of the Punjab have already paid a very heavy price during the era of terrorism, which was inflicted upon them. They cannot afford to suffer allow another misadventure, created by somebody else.
PITAJI is a great holy master and he is above all. Do not blame either PITAJI or DERA.
Such petty question why political wing supported congress doen not refelect wisdom. I ask those who have written against DERA, are dera followers beyond society? Why can not they support congress? In past elections they did support akalis too. After all we have to live in society we are not living in jungles.I am happy to see that how good people are working in DERA.
Please do not blame PITAJI. In history also once on the request of Dara Shikoh (the eldest son of emperor Shahjahan), Guru Sahib helped him to escape safely.
I want only that people should grow up with time. The hard fact behind this is that hardliners could not except that they lost Malawa belt. As well as they do not want to see the large no of followers growing day by day. If Akal thakt SGPC supported akalis stand in politics, everybody is happy but if political wing of DERA support congress why people have stomachache?
Why people are so much in favour of hardlines whose heart is filled with anger only?
We are living in secular nation. Every one has freedom of religion. When DERA has cleared his point why not even hardliners do not understand the basic point. Do not criticise SAINT like this.
It is not so easy in today`s world to gather people for blood donation. It happens only where there is love for GURU. DERA has set record twice for blood donation. The welfare activity is beyond appreciation. Some people who have learnt to see only dirt can even find dirt in heaven.
I wish may almighty bless all with wisdom.
It is for brother RANAJI. How come religious sentiments of SIKHS got hurt by any act of DERA? Tell me what activity of DERA is anti-SIKHS? I would like to tell you that DSS sincerely respect all religions. The holy master of DSS “SAINT JI” has always tought that true teachings. Reforms are generally not digested with conservatives.
Almighty, please bless the intolerant radical SIKHS with some thought, who have spent their whole life in GURUDWARA to understand religion yet unable to understand deep meaning of SIKHSIM.
Let DSS and its followers live in peace. Accept the apology, this will add glory to SIKHS.
DSS has not harmed the SIKHSIM. First look ourselves, we never oppose acohol, flesh eating etc. Such thing are against our SIKHISM. Let us first clean our house, before throwing mud on other.
We have separate GURUDWARS for Dalit SIKHS and Jat SIKHS, why so ???? SIKHISM never tought lessons of castism.
Well i think you should click to any news site because in the latest updates dera has already apologised to the followers of guru gobind singh ji(sikh community) and akal takth has rejected that without any genuine reason.Now will you please question them that what is their motive behind doing this ? If they had wanted peace they should have accepted it and i tell you that now other people are also questioning the stand of akal takth.
I personally don’t know any such rule in constitution.
If that is the case(para 4 of yours) then can you justify sangh or RSS being involved in supporting BJP?
As far as any party is concerned decision to support any political party is taken by the political wing and not by guruji.
Dera is not saying that whole congress party is a supporter of dera or they are followers of dera.At that time this party was the only party ideologically nearest to secularism.Now you will say that what is the need to support any party if none is pure. Then i want to tell you that in this democracy the only and the biggest power citizens have is their right to vote. So what is the harm in uniting the votes.
Mr. rana as far as i know prior to guru gobind singh ji the 9 gurus were all from hindu community ,although from different regions of the country.and there were only 2 religion at the time of guru nanak dev ji(hinduism and islam).It was afterward in the reign of 10th guru sikhism was founded.Any way that is not a matter of concern or you can consult any historian or refer gurubani.
Somebody in the previous comments said that if dera head is truly spiritual then why does he uses mercedes for transport?
i would like to answer that does that person think that
one can show his spirituality by not using mercedes (or any such thing for that matter)? my dear then you should also argue that if guru gobind singh,raja janak etc were real masters then why were they a king ? that om,hari,allah or waheguru has come in different avatars.he came in form of Kabir who used to weave clothes and he also came in form of namadev who was from so called scheduled caste.History is full of such instances.Guruji has to do satsangs in the far areas of country so he needs a mode of transport of his own .He cannot rely on public transport system. and also the money for that doesn’t come from dera . he has not taken a single pie from dera till date and records say it all.
so please don’t make any false perceptions without going into the depth and just sitting over the desktop.
now i strongly believes that you must be having a close catch on developments in the past. you must have seen the stand of dera and of the other side.and now try to analyse with the depth of your heart impartially ,the developments.you will find that every step taken by dera is for the peace and they want to boil the issue.
MAY GOD SHOW RIGHT PATH TO ALL OF THEM.
THANK YOU.
this is for all those blind people who are writing rubbish about dera chief. just go on the street and try make 30 people to blindly follow you. its not a child’s play. living in the hearts of 3 crore people from all religions and cultures and converting them to real INSAANS is not something comparable to common people like you and your likes typing rubbish and those who talk about hurting religious sentiments.
the only mission of dera and its followers is to live a spiritual life, serve mankind and spread the message of humanity to every nook and corner of this corrupted world. History will repeat. sai baba, kabir and many more who dedicated their lives for humanity had not had smooth going and same is true for all present messengers of God.
Well said brother Vaibhav. I agree with you. The people who have always learnt to criticse only, had even not spared the GURUS in history.
Actually, hardliners Akalis have lot of free time so they burn tyres and shout slogans. They have not understood the “GURU GRANTH SHAIBH JI” that to critcise Saint is the greatest sin. I wonder why they are criticising SAINT of DSS. I wish almighty bless them with wisdom.
DSS has never done anything which has hurt the sentiments of SIKHS. I feel that DSS is a true holy institute and Holy SAINT Ji of DSS is a great Master.
I can say this as permis are very peaceful and wonderful people. I am sorry that some radicle elements had created problems for premis by burning their houses, shops and destroying naam charcha ghars etc. I admire even their way of protest by blood donation as well as organ donations. This reflect that DERA is wonderful place.
Dear Vaibhav,
Thanks for your response. Though this is not a forum to be disclosing it, but you can believe that my profession is such I am among the closest to news and the people. I have strived and suffered for the rights of the people.
I would once again suggest that you go through my previous posts. I am neither a supporter of the RSS nor am I interested in the life styles of the high and mighty. It does not matter who lives in palace or who rides a Mercedes. I never mentioned it.
I am opposed to RSS, religious and cultural fundamentalists. They have no space in democracy.
I have not said that Baba Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh had issued any directive to vote. I had clearly mentioned that action of the Political Affairs Wing. Moreover, collecting or uniting votes is the function of a political party and not of any religious organisation. I had stressed that religious organisations should stay away from partisan electoral politics, because this deadly mixture of religion and politics is eating into the vitals of our country and society.
How can it be justified that a few individuals (Political Affairs Wing) take a decision on behalf of all the Premis? Before taking that decision, were the Premis consulted? I can clearly recall that a directive was issued to the Premis and I wont hesitate in terming the diktat issued by the Dera’s Political Affairs Wing to be as dictatorial as those issued by the RSS or from Madrasa or even a Gurdwara.
I would go to extent of supporting you to reject the Akali Dal. But then there were candidates from other parties, the BSP, the Communists, and so on. I am sure some of the Premis must have been aligned to these political parties. Or do you want to say that candidates from other parties were useless. Who decides that? Why in the past did the same Political Affairs Wing support candidates of the Akali Dal? Why were they rejected this time? Who is going to answer that ?
Because of the short sighted action by a few individuals, those who reposed full faith in the Dera have suffered. Firstly, they were not allowed to vote according to there will (a fundamental right guaranteed in the constitution) and now they are facing persecution all over Punjab, for no fault of theirs. I have felt their suffering and even highlighted it at every forum available to me and this DESKTOP is one such instrument I use to oppose dictators and oppressors.
Now about the apology. I have seen the copies of those letters, which begin with “PRESS NOTE” written in Hindi. Even an illiterate person understands the difference between a letter and “PRESS NOTE”. A press note is not addressed to anybody, hence it reached nobody.
On history, be informed that Guru Nanak Dev founded the Sikh faith and Guru Gobind Singh in 1699 created the “Khalsa Panth”. There is a major difference, which you need to understand.
Refer to the first few lines of your latest post, where you say “If they had wanted peace they should have accepted it ….” I am convinced that they and you do not want peace. But Peace is the basic requirement and a right of the crores of Indians in general and Punjabis in particular. Be sure that if there are a few who want to vitiate this atmosphere through their words and actions, there is huge silent mass of population, which knows how defend its Peace.
TODAY,30/06/07 IN THE DAILY TRIBUNE DR. ADITYA ASKED ABOUT THE SUPREME POWER OF SIKHISM. IN REPLY, AS PER PER GURU GOBIND SINGH JI “KHALSA MERO ROOP HAI KHAAS. KHALSE MEIN HON KARON NIWAS’ AND “KHALSA MERI JAAN KI JAAN” AND “KHALSE KE HOUN SAD SADSANGA” AND “KHALSA MERO PIND PRAAN” (JITHE PANJ RYARE HONGE MEIN OTHE HI HOWANGA) MEANS : “PANJ SINGH SAHIBAAN DA FAISLA MERA HI FAISLA HAI” SO GUMEET SHOULD FEEL SORRY TO GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI AT AKAL TAKHAT BY MENTIONING “I DID WRONG” AND “I SHALL NOT REPEAT THE SAME IN FUTURE” WITH CLEAR HEART.
IN SIKHISM “JO SARAN AAVE TIS KANTH LAVE”
I THINK FOR THE MANKIND AND TO AVOID BLOODSHED, HE SHOULD FEEL SORRY BY PERSONALY AT AKAL TAKHAT.
AM I RIGHT ?…THINK…..THINK……AGAIN THINK
I am fully agree with mr. manjit”s comments. If the problem is solved by feeling sorry at Akal Takhat, for the mankind, Babaji should do all this. “SANT KA MAARG DHARM KI PAURI KO WADBHAAGI PAEY”. I think some persons who involved in dera and exploiting innocent people are not intrested for the same. Please note : all of the persons including Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Giani Zail Singh, Nihang Mukhi Baba Santa Singh etc. felt sorry at akal takhat.
In the end……..”NIWEN SO BAURA HOEY”
FAL NIWIAN RUKHAN NU HI HI LAGDE….SIMBLA TUN MAAN NA KARI
as far as all this issue of apology is concern ,i want to ask that who will feel sorry and regret for hurting the sentiments of dera premis. They continued to burn the effigies of guruji . at that time where was your concious?
where were the teachings of guru granth sahib and now you are hiding your acts by preaching lessons of granth sahib.
Dear Vaibhav,
Though I may not agree Manjit and Shelly, as some of their arguments are quite out of sync. But dear friend you have given yourself in. Your latest post stinks of revenge. You stand no different from those who went around with unsheathed swords.
They say “do unto others as you want others to do unto you.”
well i would like to rectify Mr rana’s view about vote a party or other.
Actually there was no compulsion on any premi to vote fkor any particular. it was just a view which all premis accepted without any pressure from dera. it was premis decision only . so this point is irrelevant. and who are you to question the decision of premis to vote for akali in earlier election and vote other now? It is our internal issue and this has no relevance with the crisis dera is facing.
well whatever sister manjit said about panj pyare that is absolutely correct. no doubt about that that they were true devotee of guru ji.I agree. but can u tell me when did guru sahib tell that sikhs are permitted to choose the 5 pyare on their on. now it has become a post . that time the criteria was their love to god ,their devotion to their murshid.now it has nothing 2 do with love 4 god.
Dear Vaibhav,
It appears you are running out of argument, hence you have resorted to defeatist phrases. But I expected you to remain truthful. Let me reproduce the press note that the Congress Party issued on February 4, 2007. The Dera has so far not contradicted a word from that note. Let it be known to all, whether the Premis were pressurised or not.
“PUNJAB PRADESH CONGRESS COMMITTEE
Dera Sacha Sauda Pledges Support to Congress
Patiala February 4, 2007
A 7 - member Political Affairs Wing (PAW) of Dera Sacha Sauda Saheb (Sirsa) comprising of Jagjit Singh Mann, Raj Singh Kingra, Gurbaz Singh Husnar, Ram Singh Aspalkalan, Major Singh Dhaliwal, Jagjit singh Randhawa and Ramkaran Bhawanigarh today issued a directive to its followers to cast their each and every vote in favour of the Congress candidates in Patiala, Sangrur, Mansa and Barnala Districts in the Punjab Vidhan Sabha polls scheduled to be held on February 13. A similar announcement would be made for the Congress Candidates seeking election from different assembly constituencies in the remaining districts with in a day or so.
The PAW met here at Dera Sacha Sauda, Patiala Branch assured Captain Amarinder Singh, Chief Minister, Punjab & Maharani Parneet Kaur MP from Patiala that the followers of Dera Sacha Sauda would strictly adhere to the directive as per the decision of the Political Wing. Captain Amarinder Singh thanked Dera Sacha Sauda for this goodwill gesture and promised to fulfill the aspirations of the people of the state after again coming to power.
The members of the committee further said that the followers had been asked to extend full support and cooperation to the Congress party because it was the only secular party that respects all religions, communities and castes regardless of the parochial consideration of colour , caste and creed in line with the principals and ideology of the “ Dera Sacha Sauda”. The members of the Dera also expressed satisfaction and gratitude to Captain Amarinder Singh for his unique contribution for the overall development of the state and the welfare of the all sections of the society. The meeting was attended by the District Heads of the Dera Sacha Sauda besides S. Lal Singh and S. Jasjit Singh Randhawa both sitting MLAs, local congress leaders and party workers.” (press note ends here)
You have not answered any questions in my previous posts. When and through which instrument were the Premis taken into confidence before arriving at this decision? Is the Political Affairs Wing of the Dera so powerful that it can artibitrarily take away rights of people?
In democracy, though the casting of ballot is secret, the process adopted to subvert it cannot be the internal matter of anybody… not even the highest authority.
I have begun to feel that like in most political, religious and social organisations, you are also among the followers who are kept in the dark, by those who take decisions.
This is the core of the present crisis. Had there been no arbitrary announcement by the PAW, present situation would not have arrived. Of course the people of Punjab need an answer, why the Dera decided in favour of Congress, by dumping Akalis. What promises did the Akalis not fulfill? What was so wrong in their government, that did not exist in the Congress rule?
The Dera commands respect of millions for religious and social activities. Using this reservoir of respect to change political scenario of the state, is not an internal matter.
I am in no way enamoured by the Akalis or the BJP. I oppose the hardliners and fundamentalists, whereever they are. In your last post, you appear to be one of the fundamentalists, who are defending the Dera. I believe in debate. I know it wont be able to convince you. But I am sure my ideas and questions must have provoked some minds. That is my gain. Question every establishment.
let me clarify that the situation that has blown today is not just because of elections.It has catalysed the already flaming reaction.There are many other factors to this issue and the epicenter is some where else. If you have listened to any satsang of guruji you could have identified the real culprits. guruji opposes any form of donation to god . He opposes all form of drugs,liquor,egg,meat etc . Don’t you think how many people must be affected if the people joining dera leave these addictions.those who are running well settled buisness from these must be affected.
i belive you can imagine the answer lies in above para only.i urge you to go into this detail to get to the real nerve.
This is the only reason why some fundamentalist clergy issued dictatorial order that all dera branches must be closed from a particular region of india.
God only knows the future.But i can very well see that what ever platforms are developing now are giving a glimpse of truth behind prophecies.
Thank you
HI ALL
I AM NOT INTERESTED TO SHARE MY SUGGESTIONS IN FUTURE AS SOME PERSONS R NOT HAVING COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI.
IF ANY PERSON INTERESTED TO SHARE AL ABOUT “SANTMAT” I SHALL WELCOME HIS COMMENTS.
I AM NOT AGAINST GURMEET AS WELL AS SIRSA SACHA SAUDA.
I AM ONLY AGAINST CORRUPT POLITICS, HIS ACTIVITIES, HIS “JAAME-INSAAN”, HIS ENTIRE POLICY.
IF ANY PERSON WANTS TO DISCUSS WITH PURE HEART (SHOULD NOT FAVOUR ANY BODY) I SHALL AGAIN WELCOME
SOME CONDITIONS FOR THE PROPER DISCUSSIONS :
KNOWLEDGE ABOUT ALL RELAGIONS.
NUTRAL THOUGHT.
KNOWLEGE ABOUT “SANTMAT”
KNOWLEGE ABOUT “DERAWAD”
KNOWLEGE ABOUT “COMPLETE INSAAN”
KNOWLEGE ABOUT OLDEST SAINTS
Brother Rana ji,
please try to crticize old leech Mr. Badal also. This 84 year old junk CM has already gone mad. I wonder why you are following the media when it is clear that media is not at all honest. Please ask the people of south punjab why they choose congress in this election they will better answer. We are living in present society where all have to take active role in politics, local people know their problem very well this issue should not be so much highlighted why dera followers voted for congress this time. I must remind you that in past they had also supported the Akalis. If this time they changed their mind why you all are having so much stomach ache.
Please clean your heart first. I am also a SIKH but i very well know how good we follow our religion. I must say you all should go and get your face black before pointing any saint. Please do not support crazy akalis who feel proud to kill NIRANKARI SAINT in 1978. Have shame on this this is not what our gurus taught. We wear turban, drink alchol, eat flesh, bear low moral character (I KNOW THE CONTENTS OF PUNJABI WEB SITES JOKES), spend money against DEH DHARI Gurus. Where is written that No Saint will come again on this earth after Guru Gobind Singh Ji. You are against Dera, Radha Soami, Ashutosh, Brahmins, Nirankari, and unfortunately against HUMANITY. Dont tell that you sacrificed lot. Please review History. Were they Jat Sikh or Dalit Sikhs who sacrificed most (Great Bhagat Singh and Udham Singh)? Jat sikhs always served as slaves to British.
This is warning If you dont stop criticising and becoming Talibans against True Saints, History will mark you as Mughals in 17th centuary.
Dear Vaibhav,
I would like to agree with your argument that the Dera has been made target of some vested interests, especially the drug mafia. I would have been convinced if the other Deras and sects like the Radhasoami (Beas) and Namdharis had also been targetted. They also oppose use of intoxicants and propagate a social discipline.
Brothers,
What message these radicles had given after killing NIRANKARI`s SAINT,killing innocent people in kanishka? Now they are behind DERA followers. I request those who are writing against DERA etc should look into the matter with honesty. Please do not forget what Akalis are doing to DERA followers. Is this what SIKH religon preached?
I request all to please develop a mature attitude. India is a secular nation, live and let live.
Saint Kabir had said
“Reading books everyone died, none became any wise
One who reads the word of Love, only becomes wise”
Can anyone tell us in details where it is written in GURU GRANTH SAHIB Ji to criticize.
Blind argument will not pay. If you want answers ask your heart where GOD resides.
I apologise if anyone get hurt with any of comments.
hey
i agree wit manjit.. if one claims to be a true sikh follow the teaching of the guru granth guru granth sahib.. god is all around us we do not need a indivdial to help us reach him… and for those of you who r trying to defend Dera Sacha Sauda…..please take a moment and think hard… do you really think this man is not making anything out of doing all this… where do you think his high tech car, outfits and meeting locations come from.. he is oviously getting money from somewhere to be able to afford all of these things…. for the ones who r trying to defend this man display an clear example of what can happen to individals once brainwashed by another individual with hidden intenions
Dear Harmeet,
In response to your remark ”we do not need a indivdial to help us reach him”, I totally disagree with you. To be ”MurshadParast” is the fundamental principle of Mysticism, sufism, and Santmat.
Well harmeet ,please don’t argue without knowing guru granth sahib. as you said what is the need of real guru when god is every where. It is written in every religious text of any religion that one needs to find a true master (of current time) to get naam and attain salvation.also that true master keeps on coming to earth to give message of god and they will keep coming.Earlier master’s creations(books on spirituality) can only and only help to get knowledge they can never give salvation to any .Common man can’t even understand that text unless a true master explains it.So mere cramming the books never helps.
Now let me tell you that we have been thinking since long and we have found only that if any where in the world there is truth ,it is here ,it is here, it is here.
He is same god who once came in form of gurunanak ,guru gobind singh and also in form of kabir and namadev.He is the present true master on earth.But only people having fortunes of earlier birth are able to identify.Rest spend their life in ‘if’ and ‘that’.
There are thousands of proof. If you have doubt then come and see with your own eyes. Take any text from dera and read the real life chamatkars of guruji. And still if you are in doubt then take naam and repeat it as said. Then tell what was your experience. Please don’t argue on desktop without investigating yourself. Go out of cocoon and experience the truth.
My dear friend you have been brainwashed by corrupt religious politics(DHARAM KE THEKEDAR).
and luxuries(as you said) of our present master are the result of prophecies which were said by the Ist master of dera sacha sauda nearly 50 years back.So there shouldn’t be any doubt that “sant vachan palte nahi palat jaye bhrahmand”.also tulsi das ji says “if any body think that he has understood the true master ,this is totally impossible and i feel sorry for that guy”.
HI ALL,
THERE ARE MANY NAMES OF GOD, LIKE : PARMATMA, ISHWAR, ALLAH, BHARAATA, KHASAM, SWAMI, BITHULA, BANDHAP, SAKHA, PITA, MAATA ETC.ETC…..
BUT NO ANOTHER NAME OF “GURU”
GOD IS ONE (LIVING IN EVERY SOUL)
GURUS ARE FREELY AVAILABLE EVERY NOOK, CORNER, STREET, CITY, COUNTRY ETC. ETC…
WHAT SO CALLED GURUS ARE DOING ?
AFTER GETTING THE LITTLE KNOWLEGE FROM GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI AND FROM OTHER HOLY BOOKS, THEY STOLEN THE ENTIRE MATTERIAL (CREATION OF GREAT SAINTS) AND DOING SAT SANG…
WHAT IS NEW IN THERE SAT SANG ?
NOTHING……THEY ARE HANDICAPPED
THIS IS OUR UNFORTUNATE, SOME INNOCENT PEOPLE OF INDIA DUE TO LACK KNOWLEGE ARE AFTER THESE TYPES OF FAKE GURUS.
SO WE SHOULD READ ALL DHARM GRANTHS, THEN COMMENT ANY PERSON.
YOU ALL ARE GURUS……BUT AFTER DEEP STUDY OF ALL DHARM GRANTHS.
I THINK IF WE CAN NOT SPEND SOME TIME FOR THE SAME, SHOLD STOP THIS ISSUELESS (BASELESS) COMMENTS.
Dear manjit,
Do you mean that no ”Brahm-Gyani” is available on this Earth? or God has now stopped sending his messangers to the earth? What is the rational of your belief?
DEAR DR. KUMAR
THANKS FOR YOUR ENQUIRY. I ALREADY MENTONED THAT SOME DEEP STUDY IS REQUIRED. AS PER GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI ON PAGE NO. 633, IT IS CLEARLY MENTIONED :
JO NAR DUKH MEIN DUKH NAHI MAANEY…
SUKH SNEH AR BHAI NAHI JAA KO KANCHAN MAATI MAANEY…
NEH NINDIYA NEH USTAT JAA KEY LOBH MOH ABHIMAANA…
HARAKH SOG TE RAHE NIARO NEH MAAN ABHIMAANA…
AASA MANSA SAGAL TIAGEY JAG TE RAHE NIRASA…
KAAM KARODH JEH PARSEY NAHIN TEH GHAT “BRAHM”NIWASA….
GUR KIRPA JEH NAR KO KINI TEH EH JUGAT PACHHAANI….
NANAK LEEN BHAYO GOBIND SION JION PAANI SANG PAANI
I HOPE YOU WILL UNDERSTAND ALL ABOUT.
IF YOU FOUND ANY BRAHM GYANI IN INDIA, (WHO HAVING ALL THESE QUALITIES) PLEASE GIVE ME HIS ADDRESS.
I SHALL BE VERY VERY GREATFUL TO YOU.
YOU CAN SHARE WITH ME ANY QUESTION WITHOUT FEELING HASITATION AS IT IS ALSO A SAT SANG.
PLEASE REMEMBER OUR DISCUSSION SHOULD NOT HURT ANY RELAGION/PERSON
Dear Manjit,
It is clear that someone showing miracles at the materialistic level (not spiritually) is not entitled Brahm-Gyani. Further, Gurbani tells us that only a Brahm-Gyani could understand perfectly other Brahm Gyani. It is an accepted Truth (i.e. belief among Gurmukhs) that even infinite wisdom cann’t understand the actions of a Brahm Gyani and it is only after the ages in the future the world understands the actions (or Bachan) of a Brahm Gyani. So, dont believe Media (especially Indian English Media) or some one else who criticises someone, since criticising, as very clearly stated in Gurbani, is a sin that takes away all of our Kamayi (meditation).
Coming back to your question, If you really want to be Brahm-Gyani (equivalent to say that looking for some other Brahm Gyani), do the followings (as the teachings of Sikhism):
1) meditate on the TRUE NAME OF GOD in Amrit wela (2-4 AM),
2) No alcohol, meat, egg, etc.
3) Dasan Nohan Di Kirat Kamayi
4) Wand Chako
5) Sewa karo Insaniyat Di
6) Bhul ke wi Ninda Chugli na Karon
7) Apna Mann Niwan Rakho (tell your MANN always that you are a Papi and neech but your Satguru Wali Do Jahan Hai).
If I tell you now that Saint X is a Brahm-Gyani, get God’s name from him, and realise God within yourself just in a couple of days or weeks depending upon how pure is your heart, I know that you wont trust me.
So please go through your literature, ask your religious leaders which name of God will take your soul to reach Sachkhand here and now. Just do what they tell you honestly. If you realise God, I will be really very Happy, since I would be among the ones who motivated you to move on the path of spirituality.
If you are interested, I would be always there to share my personal experience with you on the True Name Of God (given by a Brahm Gyani).
I am sorry if I hurt someone’s sentiments.
Dear Manjit,
I too agree on your view that nothing is new in satang. It is the same old message of love given by Prophet Jesus, Muhammad, Sikh Gurus, Sufi-Saints, and so on. God is so kind to send his people time to time for us. Unfortunately, we hardly learn the message of Love given in Satsang.
Brother Manjeet,
After reading your comment i must can analyse that you are not mature enough to comment on religion.
I can not even laugh at your statement that “IF YOU FOUND ANY BRAHM GYANI IN INDIA, (WHO HAVING ALL THESE QUALITIES) PLEASE GIVE ME HIS ADDRESS.”
I think you believe that GOD has stopped sending BRAHM GYANI to this world.
How much time you devote in understanding the supreme power? What action you have done for the service of humanity so that your heart can guide you to real GURU?
See do not simply read GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI, but understand it, feel it. You will get answer by yourself.
I am sorry to say brother but you do not know the meaning of GURU.
Try to be modest and honest while writing. Act first according to GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI. Try to kindle your heart and mind with light of true wisdom.
Dear Brother Manjeet.
Nobody else then your own comment no. 52 has insulted the word GURU.
As you mentioned:
“GURUS ARE FREELY AVAILABLE EVERY NOOK, CORNER, STREET, CITY, COUNTRY ETC. ETC…
WHAT SO CALLED GURUS ARE DOING ?
AFTER GETTING THE LITTLE KNOWLEGE FROM GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI AND FROM OTHER HOLY BOOKS, THEY STOLEN THE ENTIRE MATTERIAL (CREATION OF GREAT SAINTS) AND DOING SAT SANG…”
I think you have never read GITA the holy book of hindus,you will know the importance of word GURU. Shree Ram has said same thing what Shri Krishana said, does it mean that words have been stolen??? The basic point of all religion is same.
Without guru nothing is achieved.
Sant Kabir said “Guru the washer man, disciple is the cloth The name of God liken to the soap Wash the mind on foundation firm To realize the glow of Truth ”
Also
” To whom i sould pay my first regard, Govind or Guru; GURU because of him i am able to know GOVIND.”
The SIKHISM and HINDUISM are not two different religion but same religion. And teaching of every religion is same as they teach love, brotherhood etc.
Dr.Murli Manohar Joshi Ji, a great Prof, as well leader of Aklali- BJP has also said that SIKHSIM is a part of HINDUISM. So we must read one another religious books to make the brotherhood stronger and make this world better place for living.
“GURUS ARE FREELY AVAILABLE EVERY NOOK, CORNER, STREET, CITY, COUNTRY ETC. ETC…
WHAT SO CALLED GURUS ARE DOING ?
AFTER GETTING THE LITTLE KNOWLEGE FROM GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI AND FROM OTHER HOLY BOOKS, THEY STOLEN THE ENTIRE MATTERIAL (CREATION OF GREAT SAINTS) AND DOING SAT SANG…”
I think one shouldn’t call every person ,having knowledge of religious text, as GURU.It is a highly dignified word and shouldn’t be used for fakes and most importantly BUSINESS MEN who take money for singing or delivering pravachans . you can say that “business men are freely available in every nook ,corner………”.
The difference between guru and business man is that guru always teaches according to the current time . he tells his disciples to fight the evils that are prevailing at that time in the society. In a true satsang you get the answer to all the queries that are going in your mind at that moment.And you get neither of above point satisfied in a fake ‘person’ or ’satsang’.
True saint never take any form of donation . yeah one thing they take is the bad habits of people coming to them and then they shower them with their blessings in return.
And the satsang of true saint consist of references from religious texts to show the difference between the doings of human being and what is written in religion.he preaches to follow the teachings not just show off(which is unfortunately highly prevalent today) the signs of religion.
Dear Dr. Simran Kaur,
Nowhere have I said that I am a Sikh. Nowhere have I made allegations against the Dera chief. Nowhere have I defended the present ruling elite of Punjab, which is headed by Parkash Singh Badal. If you have the time and patience please (with a mind open for debate) read my previous posts as well.
In your previous post you have advised me to blacken my face. Why are you so enamoured by the white or fair colour? Is black colour so inferior that if I wear it I shall be insulted or belittled? Baba Bulleshah and Baba Farid have given their wisdom about the greatness of the black colour. You have addressed me as brother, still you want me to be lowered, just because I dared to ask questions? Why instead of giving answers, you decided to issue me warning? Is this not fundamentalism of another kind, which you are trying to represent?
As far as the sacrifices of Shaheed-e-azam Bhagat Singh and Sardar-e-azam Udham Singh are concerned, like thousands of martyrs, they gave their lives to fight an imperialist and hegmonic rule. When they kissed the gallows, they belonged no caste, no region and no sect. They were committed sons of India.
For your information Bhagat Singh was Jat. Born into a Sandhu family of Lyallpur district. His uncle, Sardar Ajit Singh, ran the “Pagri Sambhal Jatta movement” before he was exiled. It is unfortunate that you used caste to evaluate the contribution of great people.
I am neither a Jat nor do I belong to any caste. But as you have sought to know the role of Jat Sikhs, I would participate in the argument. You have every right to rubbish the Jats. Was Bhai Bala, who accompanied Guru Nanak Dev not a Jat? What was the caste of Baba Budhaji, who blessed atleast half of the Sikh Gurus? Bhai Mahan Singh (one of the 40 Muktas) Mai Bhago, Baba Deep Singh, Kartar Singh Jhabbar, Baba Kharak Singh, Maharaja Ranjit Singh and Sardar Sham Singh Attari were all jats.
As a reply would you care to tell what caste did Baba Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh belong to before ascended to his present position in the Dera Sacha Sauda? In which castes has he married his children into? Is any of them a Dalit? Like the Badals, is Capt Amarinder Singh to whom the Dera pledged support not a Jat?
And then what was caste of the persons who assassinated Indira Gandhi of the Congress, which the Dera now supports? What was the caste of the person who assassinated the Chief of the Nirankari sect and later became Jathedar of the Akal Takhat? What is the caste of the present Jathedar of the Akal Takhat and the President of the SGPC?
That is precisely my objection to the diktat of the Political Affairs Wing (PAW) of the DSS. Both Congress and Akali Dal are dominated by landlords and the rich. By ordering all Premis to vote for one of the “Jat dominated” parties, the PAW sabotaged the political prospects of the progressive parties, enlightened individuals and representatives of the dalits like the BSP. It also stifled the political aspirations of the Dalits, who have no major hope of emancipation either from the Akalis or the Congress.
I want to know why did the Dera support Akalis on previous occasions and what happened in the five years of Congress rule that brought about a change in opinion? How did the poor and those without resources in the rural areas benefit in the last 5 years? Which of the 47 principles preached by the Dera does the Congress follow better than the Akalis? How is the Congress less corrupt and repressive than the Akalis?
DR. KUMAR
I FULLY AGREE WITH YOUR 7 POINTS. DR. SIMRAN I AM TOUCHING 55 OF MY AGE. I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY BRAHM GYANI.
IT IS QUITE POSSIBLE THAT YOU MAY HAVE VAST KNOWLEGE.
IF YOU BOTH ARE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS, I MUST SAY THAT THERE IS A BOOK “CODE OF MEDICAL ETHICS” FIXED BY MEDICAL COUNCIL OF INDIA.IN THIS BOOK CLEARLY MENTIONED THAT NO MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL CAN WRITE “MAAHAR”. HE CAN NOT ADVERTISE HIMSELF IN ANY MEDIA. HE CAN NOT ADVERTISE ABOUT HIS ACHIEVEMENTS. HE CAN NOT RELEASE HIS PHOTO FOR ADVERTISEMENT PURPOSE AS ITS AGAINST MEDICAL ETHICS ETC. ETC.
SIMILARLY, IF LIVE GURU OR BRAHM GYANI PRESENT IN THIS WORLD, HE SHOULD NOT ADVERTISE (BIKHEYAAN) BY THE OTHER PERSONS IN ANY MEDIA TO ALLURING OTHERS. IT IS AGAINST GURMAT, SANTMAT, BRAHMAT
“BRAHM BINDE TIS DA BRAHMAT RAHE, EK SHABAD LIV LAEY…
NAV NIDHI ATHAARAH SIDHI PICHHEY LAGIAN PHIRE JO HAR HIRDE SADA VASAEY…..”
PARM ATMA (SUPREME POWER) IS ALWAYS WITH US.
IF YOU ARE LIVING IN MAHASAAGAR…..ONE STOLEN GLASS OF WATER IS NOTHING.
FOR THE REPLY OF NISHA….
WE ARE LIVING IN KALYUG. SO SISTER NISHA I SHALL AGAIN DISCUSS WITH YOU. YOUR QUESTION NEEDS MANY EXAMPLES.
A QUESTION TO DR. SIMRAN……I AM NOT MATURE UPTO THAT LEVEL BUT YOU ARE…..? I HOPE YOU MUST BE KNOWING THE ADDRESS OF THE SAME SOUL. PLEASE HELP ME….
“MEIN TUHADE CHARNAAN NU DHO DHO PEEWAANGA” SINCE YOU ARE DEVOTING VERY MUCH TIME THAN ME….I HOPE.
I AGAIN REQUEST YOU, THIS IS ALSO SAT SANG….I FEEL VERY SORRY IF ANY BODY HURT WITH MY COMMENTS.
Hi everybody. i am joining this conversation with beleif that there should be no debate on spirtiuality & politics. Spirituality is ones indiviual expereince. politics makes man dirty.every page Of Guru granth sahib suggests the kirpa of Guru & praises the Naam (THe creators power)which we cannot see with eyes, cannot hear with ears, cannot reach with hands Or legs but can experience it with the help of perfect Master ( Satguru). Whether the master is perfect or not, the issue lies with the answer whether he knows about the path to our real home (sachkhand) & what he preaches is justified in his actions. this also is left indiviual’s experience & beleif. So i think there is no need to criticize anybody. truth is truth & will come true to the world.
First of all, please accept my apology for being slightly impolite. The resaon for my arguments was a simple question: WHY THE SIKHS ARE BECOMING MUGHALS TODAY? WHY ARE SOME SIKHS ON THE NAME OF RELIGIOUN HARRASING DERA FOLLOWERS COS THEY SIMPLY HAVE DIFFERENT POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS FAITH. DOES SOCIAL BYCOTT REPRESENT THE TEACHINGS OF SIKH GURUS. I KNOW THAT TALKING ABOUT CASTS IS A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY, HOWEVER, PRESENT SIKH LEADERS JUST FOR THE SAKE OF POLITICAL INTERESTS ARE LEAST WORRIED ABOUT OUR GURUS TEACHINGS. WHY TO SHOW EMPTY SWORDS TO ECONOMICALLY BACKWARD SOUTH PUNJAB PEOPLE? OFCOURSE; THE SUPPORT OF DERA IS SIMPLY THESE LOWER CASTE MASS AND NOT THE CONGRESS. EVERY SIKH KNOWS THIS: THEN WHY ARE WE UNNECESSARY BLAMING DERA SAINT? I FEEL WE ARE NOT ON THE PATH OF LOVE AND SACRIFICE SHOWN BY OUR GURUS BUT THE DERA IS ON THIS PATH? WHY A COMMON SIKH SITTING ABROAD IS NOT ABLE TO REALISE THIS. OR WE HAVE STOPPED MEDITATING?
Once again I am sorry for hurting the people in this chat. I am simply worried about our moral downfall if we keeping on behaving like that only……..
May God bless us!
I am leaving this chat now.
There are three girls, possibly four and more on record according to one of the most secret agents running investigation against dera chief ram rahim, admitted that the saint has sexually exploited them and medical records are there to prove it.
Most of the die hard saint’s followers are like saint themselves i.e. these people lust for sex all the time even though in public they pretend to be the nice people but deep in their heart they are much bigger sinners. They are much bigger sinners because they are telling public that they are good people but actual behind the scene they do all kind of sexual orgy stuff i.e. watching dirty movies, bad bad shameful things. May be these people are dependent on dera for their bread and butter also. Most of these guys have listened to copy cat satang of dera chief but never examined him carefully, personally and closely during off hours.
Most people who are spiritual and love god, don’t need to run around after gurus, they can just stay in their home, meditate and can meet god with little efforts. Because at the end of the day prayer and meditation, gurbani will lead to the total enlighten. Trust me. Once you’ve achieved enlightenment then you are a part of god and god will obey you like slave. Every impossible mission becomes possible.
In response of comment no.45 ,hello Mr Manjit you have said “I AM ONLY AGAINST CORRUPT POLITICS, HIS ACTIVITIES, HIS “JAAME-INSAAN”, HIS ENTIRE POLICY ”.Would you please elaborate this point?
And to Mr Rana I am sorry if any thing written has hurt you. It must not have been written with any intention to hurt anybody.
Please ask the people of south punjab why they choose congress in this election they will better answer. We are living in present society where all have to take active role in politics, local people know their problem very well this issue should not be so much highlighted why dera followers voted for congress this time. If one has to take part in election he will choose a party which they like .So there shouldn’t be any ‘ifs’ and ‘thats’ to the decision from anybody and everybody. You had criticized the involvement of politics with religion. Tell me why did every ancient ruler had a advisor from religious community. May he be Raja Ram(he had vashistha and vishvamitra) or Raja Harish chandra. In many ways it was right .those religious leader would assist the king in taking right and god fearing decisions. Also please will you visit the following link– comment ( with user name BEBO KHALSA) on the following link: http://desicritics.org/2007/06/29/142146.php
And if all these prophecies are to hold good, I think personally that there has to be a intervention in politics because you can’t improve it unless you are into it. Unless there is no improvement in politics there can be no real improvement in the ground reality of our country.
DEAR SANDEEP
I AM AGREE WITH YOU. AS YOU KNOW SOME GURUS ARE GIVING “GURUMANTRA” THAT MANTRA IS COMMON ONLY FOR ALL THEIR FOLLOWERS AND THEY CONVINCED/FORCED THEM NOT TO ASK (SHOW) ABOUT GURMANTRA TO ANY OTHER PERSON EXCEPT THEIR FOLLOWERS. I THINK….THEY ARE THIEVES.
ON PAGE 1 OF SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI, GURUMANTRA IS AVAILABLE FOR ALL OF US. ANY PERSON CAN FOLLOW…..NO HIDDEN FROM ANY SOUL.IS THEIR (SO CALLED GURUS) GURUMANTRA ABOVE THAN SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI ?
IF NOT…..WHY SHOULD WE WAISTING OUR TIME AFTER THESE TYPES OF GURUS.
AS PER BHAGAT RAVIDASS JI “SOHUN”
SO = HE
HUN = I (SOUL)
MEANS = HE IS I (SOUL)…..MEIN TE PARMATMA IK HAAN
1. TOHI MOHI MOHI TOHI ANTAR KAISA…
KATAK KANAK JAL TRANG JAISA…
2. HAR HARIJAN DOEY EK HAI BIB BICHAR KICHH NAAHI…
NOT ENOUGH HERE. SOME MORE REFERENCES ARE…..
3. TUM CHHUTAN KO JATAN KARO HAM CHHUTEY TUMEH ARAADHEY..
4. JO TE HAM NA PAAP KRANTA EH ANANTA PATIT PAWAN NAAM KAISE HUNTA…
SO DEAR BROTHER I CAN NOT UNDERSTAND DR. SIMRAN’S COMMENTS, IN SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI VERY CLEARLY MENTIONED ABOUT THESE TYPES OF GURUS “SAAKAT” (DEHDHAARI GURU).
I SHALL AGAIN ON THE LINE WITH YOU ABOUT THE “SAAKAT” VERY SOON
Some of our friends engaged in the discussions here have appealed to others not to believe the media. I am quite suprised at the expression of such wisdom. Though all may not be well with the media, but it continues to be a major hope for the millions who have no means of expression.
For my dear friends I collected some quotes of champions of civil liberties and other thinkers. Read what they have to say about newspapers:
Thomas Jefferson (1787): Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.
Arthur Miller (1961): A good newspaper, I suppose is a nation talking to itself.
Napolean-I (1804): Four hostile newspapers are more to be feared than a thousand bayonets.
Arthur Hays Sulzberger (1950): We (journalists) tell the public which way the cat is jumping. The public will take care of the cat.
Everybody is within his or her rights to be critical about the media, but the argument that media should be shut out is quite fascist. For any democratic set up to function efficiently, a free media is very necessary. No wonder, it was given the name of the Fourth Estate as it carries equal responsiblity as the Legislature, Executive and Judiciary.
For those who are so against the media, I can understand that truth bites and it is very uncomfortable, when the media mirrors us back the world we have created around ourselves. To major extent the Indian media, despite various constraints, continues performing its duties. Just try to imagine this world without newspapers.
It is unfortunate that over the years, our democratic movement and institutions have weakened, which has allowed space for fanaticism, fundamentalism and perochialism to flourish. The arguments favouring the shutting out of the media are basically born of out negative tendenacies.I agree there is lot of scope for improvement. An attempt should be made towards solving a problem rather than throwing it away.
A friend has warned others against criticism. The translation of criticism is “alochna”. It is nowhere near Nindya (malign) and Chugli (backbiting). All the great saints, peers, paigambars and thinkers have criticised the prevalent social evils and injustices. Criticism is also one of instruments to improve out democracy.
khalsa dhanna jat,
Your comment has really hurt me deeply. Does this comment suit to the word Khalsa (the purest) and dhana jat (whose heart was so clean that even a stone turned to the God). I am really sorry for you and your comment seems to partially justify the remark of Dr. Simran that I FEEL WE ARE NOT ON THE PATH OF LOVE AND SACRIFICE SHOWN BY OUR GURUS BUT THE DERA IS ON THIS PATH? Can you explaint me Raj Kare Ga Khalsa aaki rahe na koi. ONLY and ONLY Purest (Khalis) will brule the heart and not the aaki (proud, arogant).
To khalsa dhanna jat,
I am born and brought up in dera. My parents are followers of dera. Now, all your allegations come directly to me. Well brother, I wanted to talk to you and tell you that all what you wrote is absolutely false. I dont know if you have a sister or not. But, being girl, I could tell you that you have abused your own sister & mother too in a broad sense. If you are interested, I wanted to talk/ possibly meet you brother, and tell you how shameful comment you have writte. I am totally moved by your remark and leaving this chat now. Now, keep on chating with your other Khalsas and Dhana Jats.
Dear sister nistha,
I am sorry for the comment given by Mr. khalsa dhanna jat who himself is not aware of his chat name khalsa dhanna jat. I am surprised that some rational people like Bhai Manjeet ji, Rana ji etc, who have till now took active part in constructive discussion are not reacting against his comment which include obscenity.
For example what khalsa dhanna jat said
“Most of the die hard saint’s followers are like saint themselves i.e. these people lust for sex all the time even though in public they pretend to be the nice people but deep in their heart they are much bigger sinners. They are much bigger sinners because they are telling public that they are good people but actual behind the scene they do all kind of sexual orgy stuff i.e. ”
I appeal to all rational people who are engaged in this chat to use their words with honour.
Once again dearest sister Nistha
please to do take the comment of ignorant people. they even do not know what they say, what they act. I hope you know the story that When Elephant moves there is one animal which bark only.
May almighty bless you, you know nistha waris shah said that those who used to see dirty only, GOD has written their destiny with straw. If you send these people in heaven they will there also try to dig mud or dirt.
You keep on going good deeds as GURUJI tell and forgive ignorant people.
I request SIKH clergy to stop these youngsters using this name khalsa dhanna jat while writing shameful comment.
I think Dr. Kaur is right in many ways. She seems to be a rational SIKH.
Dear Rana Ji,
I am not against Journalism but biased Indian English Media personally (ofcourse just my perceptions). Now I try to outline what made me disappointed with Indian Media.
A german friend of mine Richard Kowitz wanted to stay couple of months in India. To know the country before he actually moves, I asked him to visit regularly the IBN live internet site. Someone explained me that this is a reporting meant for intellectuals. After 25 days Richard told me followings about India
1) Criticising Muslims is seen as patriotism,
2) Indian army is brave, high-charctered, peace-loving, but kashmiris are someone who just hate these qualities,
3) USA and UK are the only counties worth of reporting foreign news.
4) A terror attack in english speaking contries is a big concern but the thousands dying in Iraq due to armed violence doesn’t worry Indian English Media so much.
5) If a successful American likes Indian food (palak panner), it is a matter of proud for every Indian.
6) Engineering & medicine enjoy a higher status in studies, but music, philosophy, sports (other than cricket), social sciences, probably we dont need for development.
7) Quite a lot people are impressed with Nazi Germany’s Hitler.
8) English is not just a language tool but something more than this.
9) Media is not making aware the common mass that even in software industry we are not the leaders. Usa has windows, Germany has SAP, what infosys is going to sell to the world when outsourcing is over.
10) WHAT IS DEVELOPMENT OF A COUNTRY? WHY TO FOLLOW BLINDLY USA CAPITALISTIC MODEL WHY NOT IDEAL SCANDAVIAN (e.g. Finland, Sweeden, etc.) SOCIAL SYSTEM that suits better to our country.
11) Why does not media channelize the largest man-power of the world, as resources, instead of criticising the socially backward people for increasing population?
12) The journalist studied from DOON school dont want to discuss the stand of indian govt. on North East, but they discuss that If Bombay is excluded from Maharashtra, then Maharashtra is Bihar.
13) Ofcourse, Bollywood & cricket being India’s religions should be promoted.
This was his obseravtions. Regarding the dera matter, when talking about spirituality, the Indian media ofcourse should not come into picture. The reasons are many:
1) the mass of dera followers dont use the sophisticated weapon of english media while the anti dera people do.
2) I asked personally a reporter in May this year that why is he not telling the real picture of dera to a sikh sitting in Bombay or anywhere. He replied honestly that his editor has already prepared a news and his job is simply to search for some negatives of dera.
3) The dera issue involves the faith and love of many peoples. When I see this love into the eyes of dera followers, their dedication, their feelings for Pita Ji, I cann’t help myself tears coming to my eyes. Then I review a teaching of Gurbani that even Infinite wisom does not undertand the love of God and ”Satguru de prem de pyale de ik ghut da mukabla dunyawi sharab de 2000 mat wi nahi kar sakde”.
I agree that I am not a scholar in journalism, but, I feel Indian English Media alwasy biased. For example, why Mayawati is always targeted when other politicians have been proved to be worse than her?
SOME WRONG PERSONS ARE INTERFEARING IN BAD SENCE……
SO I AM GOING TO STOP ALL ABOUT.
MAY GOD BLESS YOU
Ratia incident on July 12, 2007
I hope you must have seen all the details about ratia incident .
Earlier akal takth had cancelled its program which was supposed to be held on july 11.
Administration had asked premis to hold their naam charcha in any private place. premis followed the directions given by administration and held the naam charcha at the naam charcha ghar(a private property of dera premis). Premis were holding their program peacefully when about 600-700 sikhs came all of a sudden from some nearby gurudwara started marching toward naam charcha ghar holding their swords and demanding to stop naam charcha. They were all ready for massacre of premis , had the police and other forces not countered them. Another very amazing and amusing thing I would like to share is that why does the radicals(I am not using word ‘sikh’ because this is not what is preached by the sikh gurus, I don’t want to spoil the word. It has a very pious definition) always choose that place for creating disturbance and hatred where dera is holding its naam charcha or satsang. Ratia and Salabatpura are the latest examples. Radicals act as if they are eagerly waiting for a massacre.
Now just think over the incident and ask these atheists that what are they doing? They are simply stopping the people from worshipping god. Is this what the religion says? It sounds that now the religious spots are becoming the favorite place for spreading the hatred against other community (as there is no check of administration there). They are forgetting the very logic of their establishment. I request all the intellectuals to think over it with impartiality. I think situations are becoming similar to those existing in times of Christ and 10 gurus when radicals (jews and mughals respectively) were opposing them.
PREMIS DONATE BLOOD FOR SIKH
Followers (block jakhal) of dera sacha sauda donated blood to sarvjeet kaur w/o preetam singh of chandpura when the lady was admitted in a private hospital during her delivery.
She needed 1 unit blood as said by doctor. Her family members were unable to arrange the blood requirement, so they contacted premi happy insaan s/o jeethu singh and asked for donating the blood. Premi went straight to the hospital and donated 1 unit blood hereby saving 2 lives. Premi followed the teachings of his guru and felt happy after that supreme donation.
It is a fact worth note that in spite of declaration of akal takth to boycott the premis , premis are showing no hatred against sikhs. They are following the teachings of their guru(Saint Gurmeet ram rahim singh ji insaan). The incident as mentioned above has been repeated numerous times earlier by premis.
I decided to post this news on this form after reading comments of some people who know neither about Sikhism nor about Dera Sacha Sauda. And let me tell you that the above mentioned incident is not the only welfare work by premis there are numerous and all these works are unique and unprecedented in this ‘ghor kalyug’. May god give wisdom to those who need it the most. May god forgive the illiterates and misleaders.
Thank you
DEAR SHEFALI KUMAR AND NISHA
I HAVE READ KHALSA DHANNA JATT”S COMMENTS. BASICALY THESE TYPES OF PERSONS ARE NOT HAVING ANY KNOWLEGE AND THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE ASKING. THEIR BUSINESS IS ONLY CRITICISM. PLEASE DONT BOTHER
SO NISHA MY ANSWER IS STILL PENDING FOR YOU.
IF YOU ARE BELOW 30 YOU CAN ASK ME “PAPA” YOU ARE MY DHARAM BETI.
PLEASE BE HAPPY……
NISHA WE ARE DISCUSSING ABOUT “LIVE GURU” IN KALYUG, WE ARE NOT LIVING IN SATYUG, DUAPUR, TRETA
SO YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND ALL ABOUT “YUG PRIWARTAN” FIRST.
I AM BADLY WAITING DR. SIMRAN’S COMMENTS. AFTER THAT I SHALL BE WITH U.
Dear Rana Ji,
I have not appealed to everyone for throwing the media out of the life. To build a healthy society, everyone should be active in media, politics (directly or indirectly). My remarks, in context of soul-god unification, was to suggest simply a goal-oriented approach (i.e. alleviating the effect of Man-Maya on spiritual growth) where energy of the soul should be least affected adversely by the materialistic world.
Respected Manjit Bhai Ji,
As you explained, Bande te Rab ik hi hai je men (khudi) da parda udh jawe. All saints have preached the same message. Our discussion is about if a perfect master (Guru) makes this soul-God unification (journey of soul to sachkhand after crossing 10th door) possible or not. Several examples in history (all sufi saints e.g. Bulleh Shah, Saint Kabir, Raja Pipa, Bhai Majh, and unlimited) have been ”Murshadparast” and not ”Shariyatparast”. Every saint has given highest priority to his Murshad (Guru) and not to the Shariyat (social religious norms). I feel that once a perfect master (Guru) agreed upon accepting someone as his disciple and his disciple keep on moving on the path of love (shown by his master), then the disciple could see the God in each and every part of the universe. In simple words Banda, God and whole Universe seem to be bounded together by a force called LOVE. At this stage, there remains absolutely nothing to look into the literature or religious-social norms. If you review history, alway religious leaders in general don’t agree upon the religious reforms of Saints. As Dr. Kumar said in comment 55, several examples of disciples who realized GOD only and only by becoming Murshadparast, are there. I CAN NOT COMMENT IF GOD COULD BE REALIZED WITHOUT PERFECT MASTER. I BELIEVE NOT………
With regards,
To sikh clergy, sikh leaders, and every sikh,
Is this sikhism :
h