… so says Al-Ghad.
In the weeks following the high profile attack on Basra by the Iraqi army and its high profile failure something of a low-level war has been going on across Iraq much behind the scenes of the mainstream media. Yet now the situation seems to be coming to a head.
Al-Ghad issued a statement giving an urgent warning that an imminent massacre of the people of Sadr City is being planned:
The occupiers have decided to implement the Israeli style ghettos of imprisoning people in concrete walls. When this didn’t solve their problem, they came to the idea of mass slaughter of the whole of Sadr-City, using mass bombing, rockets and heavy artillery against a civil population.
Wafaa' Al-Natheema condemned the attacks against hospitals in Baghdad:
Today the Shu'la hospital in Karkh district was attacked… Historically, I am unaware of military operations targeting civilian hospitals!!…Who will evacuate the dead bodies and heal the wounded? I really can not keep silent when today my colleague, the journalist, Yasir Shammri described Sadr City Hospital as the hospital of death whose function is just to keep corpses.
While Ladybird reports rumours of plans to use chemical weapons on Sadr City:
I don’t know the truth behind this story … but there are rumors .. that neighborhoods around Sadr-City are being evacuated.According to al-Badeel al-iraqi, their sources in Sadr-City sent a message saying that the attacking forces are preparing to hit the city with opiate fentanyl non-lethal gas, the same gas the Russians used to attack the rebels in Moscow theater in 2002.
Whatever can be said about the new security plan in Iraq, it has not come without cost. The new Iraqi army can hardly be called non-sectarian. Zeyad posts a video showing Iraqi Security Forces raiding a small town in Iraq in a scene reminiscent of Saddam's violent quelling of an uprising in 1991. He writes:
A massacre that you will not see on CNN, perpetrated by the US-backed “Iraqi security forces” or, more accurately, Badr/SIIC/ Da'wa gangs in uniform and out of uniform… The soldiers are heard spitting out obscenities at the wounded detainees and even at dead bodies. Others are seen dragging another injured detainee, kicking him violently and cursing him before throwing him on a pile of dead bodies… Those are the “security forces” that our American friends want us to trust and to condemn attacks targeting them.
Raed posts stills from the same video and writes:
The Iraqi police, army, interior ministry forces, and other US backed forces are nothing more than nice titles for militias that happened to be called “governmental”. The Sunnis and Shiites allied with the US get to have their militias treated as “good militias” with governmental titles, but the other Sunnis and Shiites who represent the majority of Iraqis and oppose the occupation are the ones with “bad militias” that are described as terrorists and extremists…The congress has approved billions of dollars of US-taxpayers money to fund these sectarian militias who are directly responsible of the ethnic and sectarian cleansing that has been taking place in Iraq during the last 5 years.
On a lower level Last of Iraqis has a confrontation with the same kind of soldiers at a checkpoint in Baghdad. He was stopped and nearly arrested. He writes:
During the ordeal many things were running through my head, I was thinking about the previous trouble that I have faced and remembered the comments; that really helped me to be cool, I was thinking about my dead friend; Omar who was killed by the Iraqi army in a situation like mine, he was talking with my other friend on the phone when he reached a checkpoint for the Iraqi army in Harthia neighborhood so he placed the phone aside and my friend could hear everything through the phone…it was so similar to my case but they took him and the next day his dead body was found in a garbage!!!I know you are bored from the same story being told over and over by me but this is what the ordinary Iraqis go through everyday despite the countless explosions and assassination. That's the army and police that should protect us!! How funny.
These events leaves me with the same questions that Wafaa' raised:
Aren't these disasters sufficient to move the conscience? What freedom and democracy and what government reform, reconstruction and national unity are those? Will these events move the corrupt political parties to PM Maliki's table? What constitution allows the army to kill people and insults and threatens doctors? Is there any wise man amongst you, deputies and ministers? Where is the Islam of the Islamic parties where is the democracy of the liberal and patriotic parties?
[…] Global Voices Online: The occupiers have decided to implement the Israeli style ghettos of imprisoning people in […]
we only hear what the news wants us to hear. but litte of it is the real story. My son is there a medic in the army . he has givin aid to many iraqis .all while being called baby killers and muders by on his email. hes been blown up 4 times and shot at daily. peace is a 2 way street !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We need to leave Iraq and let it fall to their fellow muslims. Then they can be whatever they want fully oppressed! We have bleed enough blood for ungreatful people!
It is a sad state of affairs when a country, as great as Iraq was, can be manipulated by radical Islamic neighbors, pitting Iraqi against Iraqi to fullfil their own countries agenda without the least care of the impact it is having on the Iraqi people and their nation. It is hard to believe that people fall for this kind of propoganda allowing their country to be ripped apart in the name of Alla. If they dont want Americans to be in their country, form a functioning goverment, work together to restore order in their country and the Americans will leave. The reason why that will not happen is that Iraqs neighbors dont want Iraq to become a functioning independent country. They want them to be a satelite country that reflects their own views and policies, not thoughs of the Iraqi people. As long as they can keep Iraq devided they will have the power to dictate the course of the Iraqi peoples future.
It is so obvious and no one is will to see it. What a shame, so much waste.
Mike Callahan,
Your statement is exactly correct.
I feel the problem is the violent muslumf aith and the tribal mentanilty. You have brother killing brother in the name of God. Most of what is sean is people who like to kill, and blaim others.
Do you want the US out of your country? Stop killing each other. Very simple. If you do not like the goverment. Then vote in a goverment that you like. So simple.
Once you stop killing each other because 1,000 years ago one group insulted another group. So for 1,000 years you kill eachother to get revenge? The world can see what you are.
Its always the Americans that are to blame isn’t it. The muslims never take responsibility for there own actions. All those American troops would love to come home and let the Iraqi people do the only thing their good at, killing each other in the name of their religion. That a democracy could ever be created in a muslim country was a fools errand on the part of George Bush. None of the surrounding countries will allow it to happen and their all doing everything they can to ensure that Iraq fails and the Iraqi people are playing right into their hands with these stupid conspiracy theories. America could have easily laid waste to the whole country if that was our goal. Its the trying to stop Iraqi from killing Iraqi that is a thank less job. I say let them have their freedom. Lets pack up and go and see how long it takes for them to figure out that the Americans were the only true friend that they had. Muslims will never have a democracy because they have to be told what to do and if something can’t be blamed on the west then they have to look to themselves for the answer and they can’t do that. Iraq for the Iraqis I say and let the bloodbath begin.
Mike Callahan, no truer words have been written.
It would be facinating to see how the Iraqis would respond to a true carpet bombing of their cities like was done to the Germans in WWII (they gave up their facist attitude after a time didn’t they?). America only fails militarily when it respects the enemy more than it’s own military objectives. Here’s to hoping Sadr City is properly fire bombed into submission.
You know, I have opposed the invasion since before it happened. We marched against it in New York City months before it began. BUT — steve is correct. Had the US government actually wanted to commit genocide, or lay waste to the country — there would have been a genocide, or no two stones would set on top of one another anywhere in the country. Do I approve of Mr. Bush’s reasons for this treasonous war? No, not at all — but I do acknowledge that his intent, for very flawed reasons though it was made, was NOT to kill the Iraqi people or destroy the Iraqi nation. He is a fool and a cretin and an evil man — BUT he believed that the Iraqi people wanted a nation of their own. He did not believe — although I know academics who tried to tell him — that the Iraqis were still very tribal, that the religious divisions were covers for tribal divisions and that civil war would follow. He believed that the Iraqis would cooperate in forming a better, lasting union for themselves. He should have known better — friends of mine who are from other mid-eastern countries did know better — but he, to some degree (and I say that very grudgingly) and certainly most (NOT ALL) of the troops who were deployed, initially believed that they would be doing good. They were wrong — and frankly, we need to withdraw, continue the development of alternatives, and let the groups slaughter each other. I think we should take any children out who THEMSELVES want out — I think we could find homes for them — and let the people who don’t want to help themselves or anyone else go to it.
War is a mess (or hell as it is often described). I notice this blog focuses on the humanitarian tragedy of it. As long as there is war, there is no getting around it. But to withdraw the US forces and leave the country to the strongest militias and the Al Qaeda butchers is not a viable option (far worse than what the war is inflicting now).
This war continues, largely for the reasons given by the prior posters on this thread. The US “broke it”, now we must “fix it” (not that Sadam was a picnic). The Iraqi’s must be given space and time to continue to form government and institutions for their society (security provides that space). There can be only one functioning government (no militias) or else one has warlordism as in Somalia (chaos) or no-state/competing states as in Lebanon.
That people are still hurting (and getting killed) in Iraq is heartwrenching. But the approach being followed (now that the strategy has changed with Patreaus), is the most likely to produce a good long term outcome. The short term will be far far worse without the course currently being followed and long term will be a catastrophe. Thus the Shia militia must be eliminated or folded into the political system (stop battling the elected government and turn in heavy weapons). The choice is totally the militias. If the Iraqi Army and US Army in Sadr city were not being attacked and heavy weapons were turned in to the Iraqi government, there would be no fighting in Sadr city. There would be reconstruction projects instead (which is what will likely be coming soon in the little pockets that get carved out by the walls).
No established State allows mafioso style militias to run sections of cities or sections of the country. When discovered, the army and/or police are sent in to arrest or kill if necessary the criminals. Finally, with Al Qaeda suppressed and on the run (but not yet defeated by a long shot), there is breathing space to take on the militias.
None of this would be happening if the Iranians weren’t financing and arming the locals. $1000 to plant a bomb buys a lot of moonlight workers.
When Iran wants to stop seeing Iraqis killing Iraqis, this will end. Until then Iran wins Iraq loses and the US military is caught in the middle
r/Georgi
It is fortunate for me to read these comments and find that what most of you have said is a very true and factual and an educated way to say and express your feelings of this matter.
I am a veteran of 5 diffrerent deployments and 9 1/2 years in Special Forces Marines. I have traveled to 6 different Arabic countries and the manner is the same of all to me, except Isreal. When do they become the bearers of there own ill will and cause of matters. Why is it that the Sleeping Giant, AKA Americans, get blamed for the matters at hand, when all we have done is go in after all the world tells us we need to help and now we are the bad guys. Will we be the bad guys when we are forced to help Tibet in there crisis they cant fix?
Mike, I agree that a significant part of the troubles the Iraqi people face is due to the meddling of its neighbors. But, unfortunately I cannot see America as a neutral party. In the latest conflict it has shown itself willing to take sides - effectively backing one militia against another. The core of the Iraqi army is made up of a militia that was created and trained by Iran during the Iran-Iraq war in the Eighties. While the core of Sadr’s supporters comes from the poor Iraqis that fought against Iran in that war.
The Iraqi government was made up of several groups that united in an alliance. Now only a minority group rules the country. In a normal democracy the Iraqi government would have faced a vote of no-confidence and elections called. But this is not a normal democracy. Instead the current government is only existing through American support. As a result it has to fight its opponents on the streets to maintain the semblance of control. America has taken sides in a very bloody way without any understanding of who it is backing. The result? More needless bloodshed. More Iraqis who becoming violently opposed to any American presence in Iraq. And a more unstable region for years to come.
Lets not forget that the reason we are there (Iraq) is because we are looking to influence and share the resources not to bring peace or tranquility. Offcourse, we must look good, therefore we seem to want to bring democracy to people who don’t care about it. If we really want democracy for them, then lets allow them to rule themselves and not place our own puppets to rule them. Iraq was much better when we were not there. We have created a mess, because us like other countries use people for their own purposes and goals regardless of the amount of innocent people being killed in both sides of the fence (Ther working Amerinca class citizens and Iraqie) Every nation involved in the fight in Iraq have its own goals and objectives in mind, not peace and freedom for this poor country and its people. So lets not kid ourselves, no one is doing anything good in Iraq or for Iraq.
light: so you are saying that Iraq was better off before the invasion? However, you don’t take the facts in account. People were being murdered by the hundreds by Saddam’s regime, with no end in sight. US forces have made significant changes to Iraq since the US-backed coalition invasion.
Also, I agree with Gary. It always seems like America is blamed for EVERYTHING we do. Genocide happening in a country, we go in to stop it, and we get blamed for any violence that occurs.
Maybe, America should stop helping other countries other then their allies when they need aid. Then lets see what happens as the world falls apart even faster.
A massacre, you say. You say a lot. What’s the matter with the residents of Sadr City. They think bullets will bring what ignorance has bred? Turn the place into melted glass.
These people will never learn.
LOL… next they’ll be say we’re getting ready to use nuclear weapons.
When one is no longer appreciated, it is time to leave. I will lose no sleep knowing our troops are out of harm’s way, but the fighting continues as shiites take revenge for the sunny domination of them under the previous regime. Let them fight, but let us not fall victim to news stories leading us to feel sorry for a region that only understands the language of violence. We should put forth our best efforts in the civilised world where people understand the concepts of peace and freedom. America should not lose one more life to an ungrateful region…Wall it off and check back in 20 years to see if they have matured!
ALL OF YOU ARE RIGHT THEIR IS NO WRONG IN WHAT YOU SAY. IN MY OPINION IRAN WANTS IRAQ BECAUSE OF THE WAR THEY HAD WITH THEM. IN THE NAME OF THEIR RELIGON THEY ARE KILLING THEIR OWN BROTHER AND SISTERS WHO BELEIVE AS THEY DO BUT THE DIFFERANCE IS THEY ARE RADICAL AND AS OUR OWN RELIGON YOU CAN INTERPIT AS YOU WANT. I THINK IT IS TIME TO GET OUT AND LET THEM KILL EACH OTHER THEN THE WORLD WILL BE BETTER OFF EXCEPT FOR ONE THING THEY DID COME HERE AND KILL ALMOST 3,000 PEOPLE, I AGREE WITH ONE OF YOU THAT WE SHOULD OR COULD CARPET BOMB THEM OUT OF EXSISTENCE JUST THINK WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE TO HAVE TOTAL PEACE IN THE WORLD I KNOW THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN . I WILL SAY THIS IF THEY DO SOME HOW LET A NUKE OF HERE I THINK WE SHOULD DO THE SAME .BUT THAT ONLY BRINGS MORE HATE THEN WHEN WILL IT END .
What is the need to invade in the name of democracy and make the innocent peoples life hell. I am an Indian, and I am not a Iraqi, but i can feel their pain. There is no limit of killing Iraq people, and ultimately I think it is a planned mass murder. And it is not a work of insurgent groups (Sunni/Al-Q., or Shite/Muqtada/..) or Irani parties, but it is a superpowers brutality, and surely it will come to an end.
I get tired of trying to fight a “politically correct” war when the enemy could care less what it does and brags about t. Ever since Viet Nam we have not been able to fight as though we were at war. NO, we have to make sure we don’t hurt anyone’s feelings while the enemy beheads, burns and drags to death their foes and we are made to look like the barbarians. If the soldiers in WWII had all the restrictions and criticism our boys get they would have NEVER won, plain and simple. War weary career professional soldiers weren’t put on the carpet for accidently killing a non-combatant and quite the contrary, they purposely killed tons of civilians to win the war at all costs.( fire bombing Tokyo, nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki, to mention only a few). This had to be done to bring radicals to their knees. Many enemy POW was simply shot in the head as the grunts didn’t want to be bothered with them. Yet no one in the good old US of A uttered a word of protest because those Americans knew that “War is Hell” and if we didn’t take it to them head on with the gloves off they would do it to us, plain and simple. It’s a crying shame to see politcians comfortable at home once again screw up a conflict at the cost of american boy’s lives not to mention a trillion dollars. We have become a soft, sad country.
Its rather unusual to say, but all the writers make valid points. The truth is there is no easy answer. I personally believe we should have never invaded. Hussein was no threat to the U.S. For Gods sake he was a silk suit wearing,cigar smoking. cognac drinking Sinatra listening monster. But we are there and believe me for the long haul. You can foolishly believe our humanitarian reasons, but the U.S. want a foothold by way of military bases in Iraq to keep Iran in check,protect Israel and control the oil. Not a bad strategy-but at what cost. Do you think we would do this in dafur or Somalia which are devoid of strategical or natural resources-of course not. Face it-We are an Imperialist country purportedly protecting its future. But can we afford it -human life and billions of dollars. Bush thinks so.
All the shiites in Iraq (including Basra and Sadr City) should be sent packing to Persia, where they belong. The Sunni seem to get along with their Kurd neighbors peacefully.
Make it happen GW. Round them up for a final blow against Tehran.
God bless our Nation’s brave ones fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere.
Some of these opinions, are obviously fraudulent. Misguided at best. Puppet government? You bet. Best way to control chaos of post-war remnants, and observe attempts at power grabbing. Iran (our enemy) and their puppet, Hezbollah, are just finding out what Osama benlaid-to-waste learned much to his dismay; That President George Bush, (not mr. bush, for those of you who parrot for lack of original thought) represents an America which recognizes a thinly contrived plot to engage all who protect freedom from tyrrany, and any who would support ISRAEL. Sadly, we will be engaged to the area until someone with both a spine, and a brain figure out that evil men, not God, demand killing of their enemies. Thought we didn’t have the stomach to fight for the innocents, did ya?
Think again Osama, Persia, Hamas, Hezbollah, Taliban, Adolph, Ali Husseini, Yassir, or whatever name you choose, when you remove the title, it’s the same ancient hatred.
Egypt lost her slaves, and was confounded by the most high. If revenge is in the blood, it will make it’s way out.
I think that we will be in Iraq for at least 5 years no matter who the next President is.
Salam,
Our country is not taking sides. We are taking orders from your elected President. He wasn’t the guy we wanted the Iraqi’s to elect but he was elected by the people of Iraq. He has made it clear he wants all unlawful militias disbanded. We will take on 1 militia at a time. Al Sadr is in Iran and is a coward. He claims that he is in Iran for religious reasons, but we all know he is Iran’s puppet. If he really cared about the Iraqi people, he would be fighting along side his militia comrades. If he really wanted to become a part of Iraq he would have joined the political process himself instead of pulling his party out of the process every time he didn’t get what he wanted. In the U.S. after the civil war, our government cleaned up a lot of the militia’s and made them join the process.
Hopefully for the sake of the Al Sadr militia, they give up and join the process.
How can someone truely believe that The Iraquis are at fault for the U.S. not leaving their country? Why should they accept the present Iraqi “government”? To expect them to surrender to the whim of the American (George Bush) government and be happy, happy folks is asinine. The truth is that the freedom fighters, patriots and those who are oppossed to being ruled from afar by George III, excuse me these are phrases from my early American History books. But I cannot help but comparing the American Revolution when reading these post by royalist loyalist. As the American revolucionary insurgent once said “Don’t Tread on Me”
Salam, Your last post seems to suggest (rather blatenly) that the American military leadership is dense - don’t understand. I take exception to that. I trust the wisdom and leadership of them, much more than I would you and your opinions. Any and all unstableness in Iraq - for how ever many years - is the RESPONSIBILITY and CONSEQUENCES of the IRAQIS. But no, not to many, actually too many Muslims. It was posted earlier about the unwillingness, (maybe even inability - my word) to accept responsibility - its always the fault of the west, or America - and/or the Jews, or Israel.
Iraqis are killing Iraqis and letting twisted, and evil people fuel this. If you know how to stop that madness - go for it.
Wanna see bloodshed - have America leave Iraq.
This article is fairly biased and unorganized.
There isn’t going to be any carpet-bombing or nerve-gassing of Sadr city for a variety of reasons so obvious they are not worth explaining in detail (P.R. disaster, doesn’t advance U.S. agenda, doesn’t advance Iraqi gov’t-backers agenda, Sadr city to densely populated for any of this to be a viable strategy), so one can only guess that the references to those are to rile up the anti-American sentiment even more (no shortage of that, probably with good reason). The reference to the wall being like the Israeli strategy toward the Palestinians is especially poorly included and emotional (it also doesn’t do justice to the abhorrent situation of the Palestinians - the Sadr city walls won’t be up that long, unlike the West Bank). Don’t get me wrong though and see me as pro-U.S. in reading my above statement, the Americans being stuck in this mess is their fault for getting hoodwinked by a relatively small group of neocons who dusted off long-standing Iraq invasion plans when 9-11 gave them the chance to pursue their (really, really misguided) agenda.
The squeeze on Sadr city is part of the power-struggle between the two primary Shia factions (BADR/SCIRI & Mahdi Militia), and both these groups have differing agendas, power-bases, and relationships with the occupying power. Everything in relation to it must be understood through that context.
To fill out the context, the U.S. shouldn’t be in Iraq, and are there because a misguided neo-con dream (compliant, oil-providing Iraq providing a nifty next base to Israel-threatening Iran) went very, very awry. Seeing as they royally messed things up, and their really stupid idea of a secular-led Iraq totally bombed out, they’ve thrown their hat in the ring with BADR/SCIRI. However, the Mahdi army actually has more on the ground support than BADR/SCIRI, so know we have U.S. and Iraqi government forces trying to eliminate that threat to their mutual (overlapping, but not synonymous) goals.
The Sadr city squeeze will play out as part of the inter-Shia power struggle, and the U.S. support of one and the animosity of the other toward the U.S.
Iraq’s issues are actually fairly similar to other ethnically and politically divided states with little to no real democratic stability and backward levels of economic development, even if they are colored by the particulars of the Iraqi case (see mid-90’s Yugoslavia as another close example of this).
In war, only civilians sustain most of the damage.
Whether or not the US should have gone into Iraq is one issue. Whether or not the US shoudl leave now is an entirely different question.
Either way, the US is not planning on slaughtering the residents of Sadr city. The US military go to extremely great lengths and gives up absolutely incredibly “targets of opportunity” to avoid collateral damage, especially the unnecessary loss of human life. The enemy does not follow those rules, and in this regard, they have that tactical advantage.
People can claim they have all the answers, and no matter how confident they feel in their wisdom - can still be wrong - often are. Some can completely overlook that - say um - didn’t this Saddam guy spit in the face of the UN, and the world in constant cat and mouse games on wmd, defy and make toothless UN something like 16 or so resolutions , and wasn’t there some kind of food for oil scandal with UN officials - even in violation of laws and humanity? Didn’t he even use them wmd (nerve gas, ect) on his own people? Wasn’t he keeping his nuclear wmd team intact, and wouldn’t he be following Iran’s lead on build-up for nukes (nah, he wouldn’t mind Iran getting that edge on him) - so we would have two maniacs mocking the UN and the rest of the world - racing to beat the other to full nukedom. And, isn’t there something like the 3rd largest oil reserves in the world in Iraq which was being controlled by a zelot, and already funding terrorists - that maybe could become more capitalistic, and a much better benefit/contribution to good rather than evil? - These are just some things floating around, though you know - it’s so much work looking for logic to some - others, though, see it quite clearly, effortlessly, obviously.
I thank Matt and others for actually reading what others have said and come to terms with understanding it before answering. TO ALL: there is no right or wrong answer here, and to say the OVER USED phrase of NEOCON,,,, why cant we use the common term of you cant think straight and it sounds big. George Bush isn’t the answer to all of your critisism, he only acts like the people tell him to do, act of war is only 90 days people, after that the congress we have elected; have to say we stay there. I have been to Iraq, Afghanistan and Western Iran. They are turmoils destined to happen. THEY DO NOT account for there own actions, they blame other people for everything, get with it. Account for your own actions that most middle eastern countries hate each other and have hatred from 100 years ago,, and no 4 scores and now we are used to blame again. I say Tap into the oil of alaska, and be done with he middle east and let them starve and become the next generation of DONNER party because they are pissed off and starving, and then they will ask for our help… and I will laugh and give them 1 bullet and a hand gun, and tell them to do the honorable thing.
michael - your understanding of history reaks of leftwing ideology - was your professor Bill Ayres, or maybe Ward Churchill? I bet if you looked closely at the 3D lettering on the cover of the book you would have seen “Chomsky revists the American Revolution”
Stupid stupid. This is all about an insult over 1,000 old. People have been using this insult as an excuse to kill for 1,000 years and they will be kill each other for another 1,000 years.
If they want the US out of Iraq then stop killing each other. America is just trying to stop the murder. If the US leaves their will be mass murder and the US will be blaimed.
Instead of killing each other. Why are you unable to vote in the goverment you want? Stop killing and America will leave. Simple. Even an Iraqi could understand it. Or is the need for revenge over an insult 1,000 years ago just to powerful?
We have won the war in Iraq, there have been no attacks on US soil since 9-11. We took the war to the enemy and they have lost big time.
I fought for my country and suffered grevious injury yet I have no regrets….we are free….strong…alive… our people are safe.
Their have always been the ignorant people who opposed the US Government only 10% of the American population supported the war of independence from England that formed this country.
We have a great country even now we have a person running for president who cannot prove that his mother was married to his father and she was a communist…..no other country in the world would allow this. I gave my blood so people cvould have this choice and I am proud of it.
The ignorance in many of these comments is frightening and leaves me doubting if the US can get back to a sane footing.
Many of these comments blame the Iraqi’s for their problems and scold them for fighting one another.
One of the most brutal wars ever fought was the US civil war. That’s right: Americans fighting Americans. It does happen.
Iraq is experiencing a power vacuum among diverse groups. There are 4-million displaced Iraqi’s and what they see is us occupying their palaces and issuing decrees that cut to their dignity. We kill them, we kill their children, we torture them. We are looking to take their oil and they know this.
We supplied Saddam with chemical weapons technology and you can only concluded that we meant for him to use them - why give it to him otherwise?
We supplied both sides of the Iran-Iraq war with weapons because we wanted to see them both lose. One could conclude that the US government hates the people of the middle east.
48% of all deaths due to armed conflict since 1991 happened fro weapons that said Made in America on them. We are a nation that is soaked in blood. Our military spending is as much as the next 10 biggest countries combined. We have become what Eisenhower warned against, but most Americans are too stupid to realize it.
The policies have bought us nothing. Do you really think we were attacked on 9/11 because “they” hate us for our freedoms? What freedoms are that? Free to pay taxes to support the killing machine while our own people are fed a steady diet of TV entertainment for morons, and that’s just the way they want it.
All of our social safety nets were put in place after America was brought to its knees by financial ruin. A couple of weeks ago, you all came perilously close to becoming liberals because all of the lies you feed on nearly went away. It’s only because more of your soul was sucked to feed wall street that you are not wondering what happened.
Don’t worry though, ignorance is bliss and I will do my best to provide you with a meal when one is needed.
Expect it with a lecture.
I couldn’t agree more with Ackermann - the ignorance displayed on this board is frightening. The blood of Iraq is on American hands, and the U.S. will continue to reap the harvest of its ridiculous invasion for decades to come.
If you have enough mental agility, try to understand that when you invade another nation for your own selfish interests, destroy all infrastructure, and destabilize everyday life for the entirety of the population, all the while killing civilians, that nation has nothing to be grateful for.
And for those of you contesting that everyone is right, please refer to Aristotle’s principal of non-contradiction. It will be time better spent than your nonsensical contributions to this ‘discussion’.
K Ackerman - and arrogance is ugly! Stupidity is dangerous. Appeasement can be deadly - and many other references to fit mindsets, and mindlessness. Your version of sane is certainly contrast to mine. Our civil war was not being funded/fuel/aided by other countries, our soldiers were not strapping bombs to themselves and walking into markets killing innocent people, our soldiers were not beheading captives and civilians, and I could go on and on -
Your equasion that since we supplied Saddam with chemical weapons we are somehow responsible that he used them. This is more evidence of logic deficit, and moral relativism. How idiotic - take the blame from the responsible party, and put it on another. Your logic says wal-mart is as guilty for a murder as the guy that bought the gun there and then killed someone? Just insane - Thats the kind of logic and rule you put forth. No thanks - I don’t need handouts - especially the kind you are giving out.
FDR was Pres during the Tuskegee experiments, and the rounding up of Asians, even nukin - um. Set in motion expansive gov’t was found of Stalin - we have morons who demand lower gas prices yet won’t let us drill for oil. Think we can’t be trusted to protect the environment (with all our EPA, ect standards) shutting us down - while allowing third world countries even (with no standards, watchdogs, ect.) just drill away evidently.
No, our gov’t is not flawless, I never said it was.
I don’t care what your take on the Middle East is - and/or why they hate us. This I do know - according to demographics, and proud public claims by Muslims, Islam will soon be able to claim Europe, and then on to the Americas.
You can assign whatever reasoning you want - their agenda is separate from your rationale.
I, also, know this - conservatives allow spewing speech - even fight for the right of lowlifes - to preserve the rights of all. Whereas a leftist will demand his rights, and deny others. (just look at colleges more and more instances occurring) the anti-war groups are often the violent ones at demonstrations - more insaneness. And leftists will not fight and die for conservative in any comparision. That says it all about character, having a soul.
K Ackerman replies with the usual condescending tone of someone who has been nowhere, but knows everything.
The Iraqis are to blame in this situation. If you live in a country, under an elected government, then you have no reason to have any kind of militia. We call these “militias” in this country MS13, and bloods, and crips. Have you ever been to the Middle East? Have you seen how noone takes any responsibility for their actions, blames everyone and anyone, including their pets, for whatever problems exist in their lives? The Iraqis voted, and now it is time to accept responsibility and wait it out until the next election. People like Sadr, and Malaki are only in this, as we all know, for political and financial gain. Sadr is a modern day Capone. Popular, religious, but still an extreme criminal. Yes, the Iraqis need to take responsibility to move into the 21st century, and start looking at themselves as Iraqis, and not as members of such and such tribe, and as masters of their own destiny.
While I am sure that you are an excellent armchair quarterback amongst your friends, you are ultimately clueless in this situation.
The ability to write your opinions, as wrong as they may be, stems from the fact that you come from a nation whose sons and daughters have been covered in blood. How much time did you spend in uniform? What have you done to fortify and sustain the rights you enjoy?
To the rest who posted, who have done so without the typical rhetoric and conspiracy theories, there are many valid points that have been brought up. While the idea of “carpet-bombing” may be shrugged off, it is actually for this very reason that we are still involved in these conflicts. We send our troops to do a job, and then tie one or both hands behind their backs, and expect them to still complete their mission. War IS hell, and sometimes drasitc times call for drastic measures. Many who posted on this or any other forum would probably not be alive if we had not made the decision to swiftly end the war against Japan the way we did. Our enemies, in this case AQ, JAM(Jayesh al Mahdi), and Iran, all know that we have become too soft because of our citizens like Michael Gomez and K Ackerman demand that we fight peacefully. They also know that all they have to do is wait us out until public opinion wins their war by way of the media.
Americans are not the ones who kidnap large amounts of people, execute them,a nd then dump their bodies in mass graves, or along the side of the road. Americans are not the ones who stop people in the street and kill them if they have the wrong last name, or follow the wrong sect. Many Iraqis blame the US for these things because ultimately we are safe to blame. We will not kill them, or retaliate against them or wage war on their entire family if they blame us. However, if they were to blame Sadr, or AQ, or any of the other criminals who are really behind these things, how long do you think they could expect to live?
@FLOYD CHANDLER said, `I AGREE WITH ONE OF YOU THAT WE SHOULD OR COULD CARPET BOMB THEM OUT OF EXSISTENCE JUST THINK WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE TO HAVE TOTAL PEACE IN THE WORLD`
Total peace in the world? Wow! What a great concept! And you say all you have to do is carpet bomb the Middle East? Great. When you`re finished there, do the same to most of Africa, parts of South America, Southeast Asia, and don`t forget China, Russia and anyone else that disagrees with the US. Oh, but be careful, because a few of them have bombs too, and they might take offense to your carpet bombings and fire one or two missles back at you.
Any notion that the US could level the Middle East, or fence it in, or that troops should be pulled out and the people left to sort out their own differences are nothing but brain-less, right-wing rhetoric that have no place in a sane, intelligent discussion. By that account, we might as well just bomb anyone that disagrees with our respective countries` positions and sort out the pieces later.
I agree with one of the earlier posters who said that George Bush had no idea what he was getting himself into when he decided to enter Iraq. But where I disagree is with the notion that he went into Iraq out of concern for its people. If we`re really concerned about the liberties of people in foreign countries, why aren`t there 100,000 foreign troops presently in Myanmar slapping their pathetic military dictatorship around? Iraq was simply a strategically important country, with a wealth of oil, who also happened to have a cruel dictator as its President. But surely as we`ve seen, the initial reasons for going into war with Iraq were clearly false and the whole war has been such a disaster, for Iraq and America, it`s going to take decades to reach any semblance of stability there.
Before the American government even talks about taking troops out, it has to talk about fixing the problems it`s created. Realistically, aren`t a lot of the problems in the Middle East (see: Al-Qaeda, Palestine, Saddam Hussein) a result of poor choices in American foreign policy? And here we are again, as previously mentioned, with America funding militia groups one against the other. When will people learn?
And for all of those complaining about America being criticized whatever they do, I would respond, `Welcome to being a Superpower`. The Chinese said the same thing about all the criticism directed their way during the Olympic torch relay. Well, sorry boys, you`re big players in world affairs and as such, are likely going to be targets for criticism.
We first have to learn to distinguish between America and American; the government and the individual. I don`t think Americans are inherently bad people. I think they made a bad decision in who they chose to elect (two elections in a row) and are now paying the consequence for it (and not just in Iraq, also on the economic front). That said, they have to be prepared to take a bit of flak. After all, most of the world is only agreeing with what a majority of Americans think: that George Bush is a crummy President!
Sorry on the mispring FDR/nukin-um
I am a proud American. I was not born in this country. The government of my country of birth is an enemy of the US. I came to this country by choice, not looking for riches, but for freedom I could not have where I was born. It’s a shame to be left no other choice than to leave your own country because its government is not a government of the people. It’s the story of many. It was the story of Iraq and I hope we are fighting to change that.
The people of the country from where I come think they love America. They also think they hate America. They think that America is the best country of this planet. They also blame America for anything they don’t like in the world. They are no different than a lot of other peoples who believe that America is all-powerful and has the keys to every problem and every solution.
It sounds schizophrenic. But that’s how people are. It is also like that in America itself. Sometimes we feel proud, because we think that we are the best; sometimes, that changes to a feeling of shame: we must be among the worst. And sure, we have our reasons for some of our contradictory feelings. America has done great things in its history, but not everything it has done or does is great.
The real difference between us as a country and the rest is that our own previous actions in history have placed us in a position to lead in the face of and take responsibility for huge events that are not completely under our control. But we are on the spot. We are expected to act. And so we must. It’s up to us. And that while not forgetting that we are just human.
And our President is human, too. So when we think he is doing something we don’t like, let’s not forget that we elected and re-elected him. And let’s not forget that Congress gave the green light for this war, and that we elect members of Congress. That’s not to say that we should not criticize our government. On the contrary, in this case the press (which publishes mostly what we think and what we want to hear) should have been reminded of that sooner, so that they could have helped us and the government make a decision that we could support as a nation. But that was then and this is now. Then, we all went along for the ride.
We are the government’s boss, and if we are not, it is our own fault. It is not about the President as a person. It’s about the country and what it should stand for. If we want a better government, it’s up to us to give it to ourselves and the World. We have done it before.
The flaws of our government are a reflection of our own. It is not the system that is flawed. It allows us to participate in it and change it. It guarantees our freedoms. It doesn’t make us wise in using them. If the output of our political process is not what we expected, we have to change our input.
America and its government of the people, however flawed, is one of the best things that ever happened to this world. Thanks in part to America and its system of government, its example and its policies, we have a world today that is more peaceful, secure and respectful of human rights than it ever was, and many countries have put in place governments of their own and achieved standards of living of which they have every right to feel proud. It’s a shame that the country I come from is not one of them. I am partly to blame for that. I hope one day I can help repair the damage that my own lack of courage has helped befall my brethren.
I hope Americans will not have to feel that shame.
Iraquis are human too. They are our fellow men and women. Let’s not forget that either. When we carpet-bombed Europe, when we fire-bombed Tokyo, when we nuked Hiroshima, we had no choice. It was an equally powerful enemy we were fighting against. It was them or us. A lot of them or many, many more of us, even all of some of us. Highly moral men made that call. It was not out of despise for peoples that did not speak our own language or who did not adore our own idols, or out of tiredness that we did it, or out of the desire or need to stop spending the national treasure at much higher rates than Iraq’s will ever approach to. The government which we entrusted with leading us out of the hell of that war didn’t just say “f*** them”. The GIs didn’t just become murderers en-masse to avoid the burden of keeping prisoners alive. Because America was a moral country then. It was a moral country during Vietnam too. And I know it is now. Else we wouldn’t be discussing about these issues, and our government wouldn’t allow it. But our morality is not absolute. And it is not handed down to us for eternal and easy enjoyment. We have to fight to keep it alive. At times we have fought that battle better; at times, worse.
See yourself in your fellow human. Love one another. Or live the lives of the ones who don’t do that and pay the price. You can see those broken lives in Iraq, or anywhere else. Even in America. Our lack of love destroys the world we love.
So let’s do our best with Iraq.
If we decide as a nation that this is worth fighting for, let’s stay and behave as decent Americans. Let’s respect Iraq and its people and use force wisely and as much as it is needed to win the peace. Let’s support our boys and our generals. Let’s demand from the government that they conduct a moral war that doesn’t bring shame to the name of America.
If we decide to leave, let’s leave like brave Americans, not abandoning friends at their own risk, not leaving the ship in mass histeria. Let’s leave in a way that doesn’t encourage our enemy to come after us.
We better be prepared to live with our own decisions if we want to keep being a moral nation. Morals are not partisan. Principle should lead us, not short term politicking. Wars are expensive, and soldiers die. Let’s not think about it when the current war is at its worst, but before we embark in the next war that we don’t have the guts to either oppose or support.
If we don’t have the moral courage, why bother?
This war is our reality for now. And Sadr City is the battle of the day. It’s not gonna be beautiful, but if there’s ever going to be peace, the militias have to be disarmed. And since the elected and imperfect Iraqui government is going for it, it’s our duty and in our interest to join that fight. I hope the civilian suffering is minimized. And I trust the military to be doing its best.
If we behave morally, in battle or in peace, we will end up in a better place and more Iraquis are going to be on our side. That should be ultimately our goal: leave as many friends there and as many good deeds done as we can, when we ultimately leave in two years or in twenty. We should be fighting to make a better world. If we can do it for Iraquis, we are also doing it for ourselves.
@right4us said, `Salam, Your last post seems to suggest (rather blatenly) that the American military leadership is dense - don’t understand…I trust the wisdom and leadership of them, much more than I would you and your opinions. `
Because trusting them has gotten you so far up until now…
Kneecap - you bet, and I am proud of them. Maybe you can’t process logic previously well articulated about how our military acts in almost hands tied behind their backs in the P.C. hypersensitive, mindnumbing protocol associated with liberal think today. Because they (US Soldiers) exercise restraint, which has gotten many killed, any many more wounded. They take the blame of slow progress. When you have news outlets like the NY and LA Slime, not to mention the other MSM (nbc,abc,cbs,msnbc, cnn, pbs) purposely skewing a negative scenario out of nearly all news from the battlefront - while ignoring the positive - what do you expect?? As mentioned, our forces could have vaporized Iraq - had they been unleashed. And yet any bad situation that one, or a few may have, (or have not) been involved, a worse case scenario, even presumption of guilt - not innocence was - was levied against them - from even sitting Senators, in front of the world!! Talk about a disgrace. There is a twisted liberal (progressive) mindset that is doing more damage to our credibility as a viable nation - than you people blame Bush for.
Why is it the terrorists, and their funders, associates, ect.. want Democrats in power? They have witnessed first hand the spineless, backstabing paper tigers - we have been labeled in the Mid East. Vote to go to war, then want to declare defeat and leave a country to its own demise, call our military commander a liar in front of the world - a puppet for the President (to a brilliant, couragous, and thoughtful man)
After all, who wouldn’t rather face them, than a reckless, angry, trigger-happy cowboy?
Great spirited opinions but…
Why do the arguments and statements made by the actual terrorists resemble those of you that believe America is wrong in Iraq?
Answer: The enemy uses our weakness to obtain their objectives.
We should reconvene this discussion in 20 years when America has prevailed and the good people of Iraq get the country they deserve.
Ah, the loony left on parade. Even though sources like this one aren’t much good for useful news at least they provide some much-needed comic relief.
It never ceases to amaze me about how much the Iraqis complain about the checkpoints. Don’t they realize that those checkpoints are put into place to prevent other Iraqis from driving their bomb loaded cars into the market places and blowing up the innocent Iraqi civilians that are shopping there. The soldiers put their lives on the line everyday manning those checkpoints to save lives. If the citizens feel humilated because their subjected to these searches think about how they’d feel laying in one of those markets with their arms blown off of seeing one of their loved ones laying next to them dead. If you want the Americans to leave stop killing each other and work with the Americans to point out the foreign fighters that are fueling this war. Stop taking the sides of the militias and tell them to go home and do something to help bring peace to the country. Once this happens our government will no longer have an excuse to keep our brave soldiers there. They are only still there to help save your lives by risking theirs. Put yourself in their shoes for a minute next time you come to a checkpoint and wonder if the person your searching has a bomb strapped to their body ready to blow you to pieces. They have a desire to return to their loved ones at home whole in body and mind. A lot of them haven’t made it home alive or whole and they made that sacrifice to save Iraqi lives, not take them because if they wanted to massacre you then they have all the fire power they need to do it. Perhaps you’d like to go back to the days of Saddam and his two evil sons who did what they wanted when they wanted. We Americans gave the Iraqi people the chance to be free you have taken that chance and used to to turn against each other. You want to talk about a real massacre then let the Americans leave and you will get your wish, but it will be your fellow Iraqi who does it. Whatever reason the government claims for the war or for staying in Iraq is irrelevent to the brave soldiers that are there. They only want to survive and bring peace to an ungrateful people who don’t know what to do with it when given the chance for it. So trust me if there is any massacre you can look to your fellow Iraqis to be the ones plotting it and that American soldier will be the one trying to save your sorry lives probably at the cost of his own.
I am not an american but I LOVE AMERICA! i admire President Bush for his courage and for sacrificing his popularity. And for trying to have faith in the sincere and honest people of Iraq.
After America librated Japan so that the power is no longer in the hands of extremists, America did not occupy it. After liberating South Korea, America did not occupy it. After liberating the Phillippines, America did not occupy it. After liberating France and Germany, America did not occupy it. After liberating Kuwait, America did not occupy it. After liberating Afghanistan, America did not occupy it. After liberating Iraq, America ….
What “occupation” is Sadr talking about?? Just an attempt to use hot words to provoke hatred.
Some say America should help Dafur, Sudan. But if America does that and Al Qaida starts to cause a prolonged war in Sudan then people will say all the killings would not have happened if America didn’t initiated it. Who can predict what the Al Qaida criminals want to do. Should we stop helping the oppressed just because of fear about what the criminals might do. Next time when I see my neighbour torturing his children I better not do anything because I might be called the “occupier.”
Who likes war! But that doesn’t mean we should allow bullies to sponsor terrorism helping them to strengthen their network while reciting, “Death to America!” No, Lincoln was no “moron” when he decided on a war that would upgrade the integrity of the nation he loved!
I have read all these posts and can feel myself being swayed by most. Then I read Alik’s post and was reminded what is right in America. We are a moral nation, can we keep our morality and leave Iraq to itself ?
“Why can’t they just vote for their government?” What do they do if they give up their weapons, vote for a different government… and the current one decides not to honor the results?
It’s easy to forget how unusual our (and the growing number of countries that are following us) government is. NOBODY thought it would work… that the president would gladly step down if voted out of office. Nobody could have made him… he has all the guns, after all.
Is it better for the Iraqi’s to not have an all powerful dictator who purges anyone who gets close to being a threat to him, and anyone else he feels like? Sure. Is it in US interests not to have someone with a WMD program who has shown a willingness to use chemical weapons multiple times, plot terrorist attacks on US presidents, and invade countries for territory? (remember… saddam wanted the world to think he had WMD’s since if he didn’t Iran was even more of a threat to him then we were… if he was TRYING to convince the world he had them, how would someone know otherwise)
However, even if removing Saddam was in the interests of Iraqi’s AND americans… what to do about THIS situation? I have absolutely no idea. The rule of law must be established for regular people to be safe and secure, but various groups are extremely distrustful that if they allow the government to consolidate power and do that… that the law that emerges will still be fair to them, and they would no longer have the capability to do anything about it.
Honestly… I’m fairly sure that most people involved are doing what they think is in the best interests of both themselves and the country in general… but their ideas just don’t match.
The blog by Alik is the most sensible and harmonous comment yet.
I too have my misgivings about this war. As a former military man, I feel that this conflict is a mess and desire a exit plan. As an American, I support my country. As a humanitarian, I give my mother, father, sister, brother, child, no greater consideration than I do those of the Iraqi people, for I believe that when I act in the best interest of human-kind that I am at my best.
These comments make me realize that we really need to have a national debate about what American is and What we as Americans expect it to be on the world stage in the next century.
I for one am for measured steps when it comes to dealing with future world conflicts.
I have been reading the comments. The rich people in america control every thing. We have people all over the world.There is nothing to worry about. We have the best crooks and lawyers in the world. We have the best milatary that has ever been in history.When the powerful people decide its time to end the war in the middle east we will and not a moment sooner.Powerful people dictate what will happen, when thier is no more profit to be made. A person would think that all that money being spend over thier could be use here in our own country. We get blamed for everything that goes wrong in the world. JUST THINK HOW THE WORLD WOULD BE IF THERE WERE NO AMERICA!!!!!!
War is an ugly thing. But not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of beeing free unless made so and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill 1806-1873
America fought to keep the middle east free of Nazi Germany in World War II. America has stood beside Israel to defend a small free country that its Arab enemies have sworn to destroy due to misguided religious hatred. Starting after Israels birth a band of islamic fanatics began to make a quiet war upon America and the west. Hijackings, bombings,shootings, the list goes on. The world cries out to America everytime a humanitarian crisis arises. We tried to feed the Somalis and for our attempt to quiet the worlds moral outrage over the situation we lost soldiers to those fanatics. The fanatics took note. They remembered all their acts so far (Pan Am 103 ring a bell) and realize they did so with impunity. We withdrew and left the region to itself. Embassy bombings followed, ships were attacked in supposedly friendly ports and we did nothing but lob a few cruise missles. Islamic radicals preached hate and death to America and we and other world governments did nothing. Then THREE THOUSAND people were murdered on our own soil. They weren’t soldiers carrying out an evil plan to steal oil or enforce democracy. They were innocent men women and children. We saw pictures of Muslims dancing in the streets. Has anyone thought that Bush’s invasion of Iraq was used to set an example? Those that hold power only fear one thing, they fear to lose their power to submit their countrymen to their every whim. The invasion of Iraq showed one thing, America still has teeth. The invasion showed whoever was smart enough to get the message that the days of slaughtering American civilians with no consequences are over. The Bush administration made huge mistakes in the handled the post invasion country. What are the alternatives to trying to salvage it? Withdraw and let the Imams preach death to Americans, you kill a few of them and they run! Some people need to wake up. Its easy to have your Bush is Evil diatribes and your neocon oil conspiracy theories. I am a disabled veteran and have gone places and seen things most of you never will. Some people do not understand or wont accept peace through dialogue. Some people only understand brute force. There is no way to fight a war humanely, Sadr city is a microcosm of the middle east. Innocent people trying to live their lives but being caught in the middle of religous hatred carried out by the AK-47. What is the answer to all this? I don’t know, let history be the judge. Meanwhile America will just keep helping the world only to be demonized (Burma cyclone, Darfur, Bosnia, etc etc ad nauseum). Please learn from history is all that I ask. A wise man once said that those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
The only mistake President Bush made in the war in Iraq was believing that most Americans had a high level of resolve. He believed that Americans had the same resolve as we did during World War Two. The truth is that we don’t. I am only twenty nine years old and the times have clearly changed from the times of my elders. These days no one gives a damn about anyone else but themselves Drugs,prostitution,child molesters,gangbangers,murders,kidnapping,rapes and tons of other types of crimes run rampant throughout our country. Drugs are everywhere, even in this small town I call home, I can see the drugs. You don’t have to be a cop to look at someone and see that they are basically walking dead.
Americans care more about their MP3 players and cellphones. Americans have better things to do than support a war on terrorists that want us dead because here in America we have this thing called freedom of religion. Terrorists want us all to adopt the muslim faith and be like them. Americans against the war in Iraq are sitting there in their safe and secure homes, watching all the bad stuff happen on CNN and saying “Oh my god, thats not right”. “We need to bring the troops home”. It’s so irritating to hear that shit.
Anyways I’m really tired and after reading some of the comments I’m a little pissed off.
Only two people have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American soldier.
#38/K Ackermann: I really appreciate your comment.
Alik, Thank you for your post.
I would have to say that what Alik wrote was absolutly beautiful, and capturing. I dont read all of most posts but that kept me thinking of my ability to be an american and when I was fighting. I spent 10 years in the Marines tracking people down that have made enemies of our nation. I guess what I figure as a soldier and a person is that there are questions a man asks himself before doing wrong. Will I get away with it and if not Who will I make irritated enough to make me pay for it. Well, we have been asked that question many times in history. Sometimes we made great choices sometimes not so much.
I see that the Civil war has been brought up many times here. well we got through the civil war, we learned from it and became a great thinking nation. It didn’t take us 100 years to do it. Then again it isnt just Arabic people. Isreal has been fighting the same war for that long too just to live day to day. France wont fight at all, unless they know we are going in for them, we always have. It gets really trying as a soldier knowing every time that France gets bullied or talked to wrong or they in turn piss someone off we have to take up for them. Atleast the arabics fight there own battle for as long as they can.
There is a piece in some people that they just have to take advantage of others and make more money then them and have more toys. I dont subscribe to that theory and thought pattern, because when you have seen death, or like me, taken life your pattern of thougt changes and it is about the meaning and beauty of life that you now preserve.
It may seem outlandish or out there thinking wise but I think what America needs to become one again and to regain out comradery is to be invaded by another country on our own soil and have to fight for the right to be here, but as we know, there isnt another out there capable of that unless they join forces.
As you read and write here on this day and on this page please remember, there are Soldiers out there carrying a gun all day long and dodging fire and mortars and rockets and they do it for the guys around them wearing the same flag, but they also do it for the name of AMERICA and the statue of liberty and what she stands for.
Kneecap - you bet, and I am proud of them. Maybe you can’t process logic previously well articulated about how our military acts in almost hands tied behind their backs in the P.C. hypersensitive, mindnumbing protocol associated with liberal think today. Because they (US Soldiers) exercise restraint, which has gotten many killed, any many more wounded. They take the blame of slow progress. When you have news outlets like the NY and LA Slime, not to mention the other MSM (nbc,abc,cbs,msnbc, cnn, pbs) purposely skewing a negative scenario out of nearly all news from the battlefront - while ignoring the positive - what do you expect?? As mentioned, our forces could have vaporized Iraq - had they been unleashed. And yet any bad situation that one, or a few may have, (or have not) been involved, a worse case scenario, even presumption of guilt - not innocence was - was levied against them - from even sitting Senators, in front of the world!! Talk about a disgrace. There is a twisted liberal (progressive) mindset that is doing more damage to our credibility as a viable nation - than you people blame Bush for.
This is idiotic–You can’t have MILITIA inside a Country. in effect you are establishing a STATE within a State. And that is nothing but trouble. ASK THE LEBANESE
So the USA and the LEGALLY elected Government of IRAQ has set out to correct this problem–If the Shia militias are not willing to submit to the LAW of the Government of Iraq then they must be dismantled–BY FORCE if necessary–.
AND SALAM—Your friend drove up to a check point talking on a CELL PHONE–He was asking for trouble–I’m sorry to say–attacks against check points are rampant and your friend gave them the excuse they needed to kill him–Cell phones are used to trigger car bombs and give details of check points for future attacks. What would you do sitting at a check point when someone does something so suspicious. Shoot first–apologize later-if your wrong.
We should have killed that idiot SADR in 2003 and been done with this MESS the first time he used militia to attack US troops.
I don’t feel sorry for you–or IRAQIS in General–it’s your country–you have the backing of the US to use legal methods to obtain your goals-and you continually squander it. Lashing out with BOMBS and random killings, then complain about how harsh YOU are returned the FAVOR when the USA Military or the IRAQ Government responds to YOU!
Billions have been spent by my country to secure a future for yours–and you have pissed it away.
Thank you for all your comments. I do not have the time to address all of them but I want to address those directed to me and one thing:
The argument that America leaves Iraq and there will be terrible bloodshed reeks of the domino theory about why America had to stay in Vietnam. The problem is America is in Iraq and there is already terrible bloodshed. After five years of bloodshed this argument has become simply irrelevant.
@Mike, of course this post is biased - it only reviews the opinions of Iraqi bloggers. However, I tried to cover the subject with as broad a range of opinion as possible. Two of the bloggers I quoted are in favor of America staying in Iraq, most are strongly against Sadr.
When you are reviewing blogger opinions, being unbiased is almost impossible. But, this is why every post has an open comments section. And this comments thread is as important as the actual post. I hope you all keep visiting this site and comment regularly.
@right4us: I did not suggest that American military leadership is dense. They are meddling in sectarian politics with little appreciation for the local history or politics. They view the Sadr militia as no more than criminals and the militia running the Iraqi army as democrats. Neither is true and this will lead to worse problems in the near future.
I don’t pretend to fully understand the complexities of this terrible event but I do know this. war is unfailingly ugly. Democtatic government has never existed in this region in recorded history. We are trying to put something in place where is has never been. Our common enemy satan destroys all that he can with division, mistrust, and greed. War is the zenith of all these things. Sadr represents what he beleives as all who are involved, we only see him from our point of view. If you agree with their cause fighters are labeled freedom fighters, if you do not agree with them they are terrorist, and thugs. We can never see the whole thing it is directed by forces greater than those of the physical world. Are battles are not with fleah and blood, but with the rulers of the darkness that controls this season of mankind. I pray that God’s lght will shine over this all and expose the truth, and the truth shall set us all free.
We who have some intelligence, know that our soldiers in Iraq are doing their job or the job they were sent to do under the pretext of weapons of mass destruction by the delegate elected Mr. Bush. It is a war justified by lies. I have family member who have been to Afghanistan and Iraq, and I love them. I don’t love what our government is doing there. Yes, I support the troops, for they are not resposible for the choices made by the Bush elites. They signed a contract to serve our nation where ever it may be needed, but to be sent to war on false pretexts is insane. all soldiers must find reasons to justified what they are doing, but they don’t need to. Our nation leaders are the ones who should be looking for penance for sending the children of the working class to die for an unjust war and for the death of thousands of innocent people in Iraq. We supported Iraq before, we supply them with weapons; including chemical weapons they used in war against Iran and Kurds. So the question is what happened that made our wonderful allied turned against us? Well, we will never know. If Iran is involved in this mess, they have a legitimate right to do so, they live there; we don’t. You would not want your enemy to live next door to you? I pray that our soldiers come out of there soon; they don’t deserve to die there, in a foreign country, for an unjust cause. Where are the sons and daughters of the rich? They are not dying in Iraq; they are preparing to rule the next batchof working class children that will die for them in the wars to come. Hopefully, those future wars will not be unjust? Again there is more than meets the eye with the war in Iraq; seach for the truth and you will find it. Do research! Our only reason for our nation meddling in the middle east is for their resources. Can we do it justly and through diplomacy? We preach democracy and justice, yet we behave just like all of them. Some warscan be justified and other can’t.
Salam Adil, what will it take for the iraqi people to stop killing each other?
It is amazing how we are the most hated country in the world . we are, lets face it . But for some reason we are the first country everyone calls for help when anything bad happens . they go out of they way to get the U.S. involved just so they have someone to Blame for there problems . they have been fighting over religion for thousands of years and it will continue for thousands of years to come . if we stay or leave , the killing will go on .
and no matter what we are still the country everyone wants to come to and live buit we are the most Hated
This long list of seething rage is just overwhelming, but I can see a pattern of responses based on false assumptions
1. That the Iraqi government is fighting militias. This is False. The Iraqi forces are largely militia in government clothing. The Badr Brigades, trained by Iran have infiltrated the Iraqi forces and are fighting the Mahdi army for dominance.
2. That the Iraqi government is legitimate. There is no legitimate government in Iraq, only a Quisling government placed in power by an occuppying army. Elections under occupation are never legitimate.
That the US forces are trying to save the Iraqi from themselves. The US forces are in Iraq for two reasons. The first is to secure our access to petroleum deposits in the country. The second is to open a second front in the Israeli/Arab war entering it’s 60th year. There are no other real reasons to be there.
That the US should simply carpet bomb Iraq “like Dresden”. If the US actually began carpetbombing civilians then they would be unmasked as the psychokillers that hey are before the whole world, as if slaughtering 2,000,000 Vietnamese was not enough. This would ultimately bring about the downfall of the US and the rise of the real world superpower China, something the hundreds of thousand of Pentagon war planners are well aware of.
What we are witnessing now is a world shift. European and US domination of Africa, South America and large parts of Asia are being contested as never before. No people ever submits to domination for long. Expect more of the same until the US and its European allies resemble the British post empire.
have a nice day
Salam - when you repeatedly comment things like this:
..But, unfortunately I cannot see America as a neutral party. In the latest conflict it has shown itself willing to take sides..
..The Iraqi government was made up of several groups that united in an alliance. Now only a minority group rules the country…
..America has taken sides in a very bloody way without any understanding of who it is backing. The result? More needless bloodshed. More Iraqis who becoming violently opposed to any American presence in Iraq. And a more unstable region for years to come. ”
You can’t make several knocks and claims of repeately making wrong decisions, and/or chosing sides wrongly - yet somehow not “suggest” as I posted, a level of ignorance - aka dense.
We have been there since 2003. The violence escalated in 2006 in the Mosque bombing that ignighted the tension, as outlined by statistical facts. The US surge followed - with stabalization, and declined violence to where we are. They have been working with the Iraqis the whole time. You infer our military is independent - making decisions without any inclusion/consideration of the IMPUT and Cooperation of Iraqis - who are trying to save Iraq from thug rule. It’s just Americans making decisions without “understanding”.
re: Sadr: In a civilized world someone who is perpatrating criminal acts against society and or its gov’t - IS a criminal. To justify his actions in any way - is akin to justifying suicide bombers, or even killing anyone for Allah, or to expect his blessing or fulfillment in doing so. You cross that line and you cross the line of rationality.
I’m sure you know that in conflicts - there are “sides”. And at some points a side has to be chosen - otherwise, you might as well leave - fence sitting does nothing to resolve issues.
And, I still reject your conitued blame America for Iraqi, or Muslim, Arab - whom ever’s problems.
Look at civilized countries - they are not continually fighting militia battles in the streets, or having them dissect and rule certain areas apart from the gov’t. Nor should they blame others for their own doings. There Will be stability when Iraqis/Iranians & other jihadists stop killing each other. Blame THEM for a change, if you can bring yourself to doing so, without including America.
Just too many people on the planet. A nice tasty black plague would be good right now. Wipe a clean 70% of the populace off.
And Well, other than that, gosh it sure seems like groups in the middle east like to abuse one another. Cant keep their children alive or the cycle will continue.
salam (my hairy starfish)
Good thing I’m not president, My policy on Iraq would be “Scorched Earth.” There would be no one left to cry or feel sorry for and fuel would be 99cents a gallon!!
Alik you are a representation of the course that my Dad and his Dad fought for in both wars thanks for reminding me of what pride I take in being an American! Lets stay the course and fight the moal fight so that our grand children will know and embrace peace!
Cuda , and Ackermann are right on! There the only two I agree with out of the whole mess . We are fooling around in Iraq while Rome is burning . They put the war (brought on by lies) on a credit card . China is one of the creditors . That made it so he could give the rich all tax breaks . I don’t think we have fought many wars and cut taxes at the same time have we ? We could use the money here at home.
Whose going to pay for the trillions borrowed ? I’m not college educated like most of you, but do have some common sense and have ran a successful business for 40 yrs and served in the Military . I do know that FDR , the man that brought us out of the first depression, when Hoover was president , wasn’t the one that “nuked um in Japan . Mr. Truman gave the order and it saved many American serviceman’s lives and brought the war to and end .
Pure emotions. Where is the truth? Find the truth and you find the answer. The great power of nature, which maintains the equilibrium between positive and negative forces, is lost,and the process of evolution is thereby obstructed. Simply put the very purpose of creation and evolution is expansion of happiness. So if happiness does not result from an action, then that action defeats the very purpose of action, and its performance cannot be justified. War is a natural phenomenon. It is a process of restoring the balance between the negative and positive forces of nature. Sin is that through which a man strays from the path of evolution. It results in suffering. I quote statements by my Guru who passed away in February, 2008.
And to address the posts that claim that we have made mistakes in this war, and have lost, etc etc…..the act