Tuesday update:
Zuola the former pioneering citizen reporter has made a monstrous effort in aggregating links to Chinese-language coverage and discussion of the ongoing situation in Tibet.
From Tibetan writer Woeser's blog, one reader writes at 00:17 on March 18:
作为藏人， 决不能就此放弃
让汉人在西藏和奥运之间做出选择吧
The Han have to choose: Tibet or the Olympics
Looking through Twifan for reports of unrest having spread to the provinces surrounding Tibet comes news from the Tibetan quarter in Chengdu, Sichuan's Wuhou district:
7:21 pm Monday, Fanfou user Qianlan:
晕，看来真要打仗了。洗面桥街和武侯祠横街都被封锁了。
7:55 pm Monday, Fanfou user o8o8o8:
刚刚在群里收到的最新消息! 成都军区已经一级戒备了，正在往西藏调兵。 武侯祠横街南北两个方向路口完全交通管制，车辆不得进入；洗面桥横街东西两个方向完全交通管制，车辆不得进入；蜀汉街和另外一条小街直接就路上横了两辆警车把路堵死了。大概估算了一哈，有超过200名警察，超过100辆警车，包括各种警牌的和川OA，还有大概50辆左右的警用摩托，三个一组的编队在不间断巡逻，在武侯祠横街南北两个路口，各有一辆消防车。 武侯祠横街和洗面桥横街已经完全变成步行街了，没有任何地方车辆。走到街上全部是警灯的闪烁。这段时间不要到人多的地方去打堆堆,西藏运来的好多吨炸药运到成都来已经不见了，消失了 警报日前接内部消息：一{BANNED}分子潜入成都，妄图从事恐怖活动。 此人在国外学习爆破多年，技术出众，手段残忍。 成都各区已抽调得力干警
and:
超过500人组成专案工作组开展紧急排查工作，目前此人尚未抓获。 奉劝各位这几天尽量减少外出，避免发生意外。 从昨日起成都警方以及军区已经对城区部分地区实施封闭检查 不要往人多的地方去活动 , 没事请呆家里!
And from MSN Live Spaces user XK83 at 9:21 am:
反恐第一线(一)
两会期间，拉萨发生骚乱。官方说达赖集团煽动闹事。死亡13人（截至3月17日），伤多人。
公元2008年，3月17日，西藏驻成都办事处，康定酒店，成都西藏人聚集地——武侯祠横街实行交通管制，武警配枪上街巡逻。
而这条街的一号，就是我单位的所在地。我租的房子，也在这条街。
虽然我在外面出差，但是妈妈还在成都的家里，单位还在那条街上。经过电话联系询问，整理的信息如下：
17号开始这条成都藏民最多的街实行戒严，不准车辆通行，10多辆汽车上下来许多穿迷彩服的武警士兵，配枪巡逻。
我单位作为这条街上最重要的国有单位，门口已换成武警把守，进出单位需要工作证和身份证，并在单位保安的确认下才可进入，院内不时会有武警进来巡逻 ，
单位上班开始不计迟到，晚上所有人不许加班，早点回家。
我家对面的康定酒店（西藏人开的3星级酒店），据谣传，已经关了一些重要人物，而且发生了流血事件(未经证实，大家口头相传)
有从西藏传来一说，10吨炸药带入成都，消失~~~有同学的同学在西藏告知，少去广场、火车站人多地方。
慎重使用公共交通工具。
…
后续报道会即时更新
Lianghui is on, riots in Lhasa. The official statement is that Dalai Groups are inciting riots. 13 dead (as of 03/17), many injured.
March 17, Tibetan Affairs Office to Chengdu, Kangding Hotel, gathering place for Tibetans in Chengdu–traffic controls on Wuhouci St., PAP armed and doing street patrols.
And at #1 on this street just happens to be where I work. The apartment I rent? Also on this street.
Though I'm off on business, mom is still at home in Chengdu, and my office is there, so through regular phone calls back I've gathered the following information:
Beginning on the 17th, this part of Chengdu, which is where the most number of ethnic Tibetans live, has been under lockdown; no cars allowed to enter, and many camouflage-wearing PAP who came in on over 10 vehicles are armed and doing patrols.
The office has stopped counting if people show up late, and nobody is allowed to do overtime at night, and people are going home early.
Kangding hotel right across from my home (a 3-star hotel opened by a Tibetan), according to rumors, has already had some of its higher-ups arrested, and there've been incidents of bloodshed (unconfirmed, this is just what everyone is saying)
There's word out of Tibet too, that ten tons of explosives were brought into Chengdu and then disappeared……a friend of a friend in Tibet told him that. Stay away from plazas, the train station, or places with lots of people.
Use public transportation with caution.
…
More updates coming soon.
From Sunday, independent blogger Mr. Jun aims for a more rounded perspective in his post ‘The Lhasa Riots–How are we to look at them?'
常常认为，从不同的角度看一样东西，会有不同的景色。从正面去看一个人，有可能会觉得他有点面目可憎，可是如果从旁边看，他或许是个心地善良的人也说不定。就像是拉萨暴乱事件一样，从那方面看，就有不同的结论。
如果以….
中国的方面来看这个拉萨暴乱事件
- 拉萨暴乱是有阴谋的。
- 达赖图谋藏独。
- 拉萨暴乱的另外意义是阻止奥运的进行。国外的方面呢？
- 阻碍奥运是错误的，根据过去的经验显示，杯葛奥运是一定会失败的。
- 没有任何一个国家会接受西藏是个独立的国度。拉萨与西藏的看法又如何呢？
- 以暴力阻止暴力，是很没有说服力。
If…
..looking at this from this Chinese side:
-there's a conspiracy behind the Lhasa rioting.
-it's the Dalai Lama's plot for Tibetan independence.
-another purpose to the Lhasa riots is to prevent the Olympics from being held.
…and from overseas?
-interfering with the Olympics is a mistake; past experience shows that boycotting the Olympics is guaranteed to fail.
-there isn't a single country which would accept Tibet as an independent nation.
And Lhasa and Tibet's views?
-Stopping violence with violence, there's nothing persuasive about it.
[…]
和平是很难维持的，因为那是双方面的。如果有单方面和平的破坏，双方也不会就次罢休的。不少喇嘛被囚禁了，这就是单方面的和平破坏的开始点。暴乱事件就是另一方对于喇嘛被囚禁的不满而做出的抵抗。双方面没有得到共识是错误的起源，因为不了解而分裂，那是历史很清楚地告诉我们的。而奥运又要利用这事件来表达，奥运本身就是如此地神圣不可侵，没有人该推翻它！人民醒觉运动，我个人认为人民应该拥有权利，不把所有的权利都给于一个领导人。就以古中国来说，皇帝的决定是绝对的，包括战争。人民的反对票无法达到皇帝的认同，因为人民没有选择权。可这不表示人民应该拥有所有的权力，所以权力的分配必须达到平衡。
最后回到‘从那方面看？’这话题。如果是中国的新闻来看，那可能会有点夸大其言，毕竟现在以武力镇压拉萨的是中国，中国是其事件的起端者，所以中国的话还是别全信比较好。西藏与拉萨方面，他们是其事件的起端者之一，可是同时也是受害者。他们有可能会夸大其言，但他们是受害者，所以可信度比较高。
Peace is hard to maintain, because there are two sides to it. If peace on one side is broken, neither side will be able to just let it go. A lot of Lamas have been imprisoned, this is how one side began to destroy the peace. The incidents of rioting are the other side's resistance due to dissatisfaction with seeing Lamas imprisoned. That neither side has reached a consensus is the origin of the mistake, and that division comes from lack of understanding, this is what history tells us clearly. And with the Olympics this incident will be used to say just how sacrosanct the Olympics themselves are, and that nobody should touch them!
A people's awakening movement, as I see it, is a right a people ought to have, and that not all powers should be given to a leader. In ancient China, the emperor's decisions were absolute, including going to war. People's opposition votes weren't recognized by the emperor, because the people had no right to choose. But this doesn't suggest that the people should have all the power, and this is why division of power must be balanced.
Back to the topic of ‘which side?'. If one looks at Chinese media, well, there might be some exaggeration, especially now with China suppressing Tibet with military power, and China being the source of these incidents, which is why it's better to not completely trust what China has to say on this. For Tibet and Lhasa, they are one of the sources of these incidents, but at the same time they are the victims. They might also be exaggerating, but as they are the victims, their degree of reliability is still much higher.
Ken at Kadfly, one of the last few foreigners to enter Tibet before the violence broke out and the area shut down, has added to his earlier collection of tourist photos of the unrest and destruction with an update Monday that the Tibetan violence had generally stopped:
Today people returned to the streets of Lhasa in droves. There are tons of Chinese police and army in the city but they are letting people wander without too much difficulty. Schools were also open today - hopefully all this means that there will not be any further escalation of the situation. Since the 14th things have quieted down dramatically - aside from a few booms and bangs we haven't been able to hear much from where we are. We have heard, however, that the authorities have been conducting night-time arrests in other parts of the city, but this is not confirmed.
Original post:
Protests in Lhasa set to coincide with the 49th anniversary of the Tibetan people's unsuccessful uprising against PRC occupation of the former theocracy which began on March 10, the day on which what was being called the worldwide Tibetan people's uprising was stopped at the Indian border, turned violent on March 13 and may now be spreading to neighboring Gansu province.
As mainstream media struggle to bring out the latest developments, bloggers on the ground in Lhasa have been able to provide ongoing updates on the situation. Earlier in the week, the Time China blog linked to one European tourist's writing, photos and video from Lhasa just as the rioting had begun.
QQ blogger 24K Pure Love at 2:58 pm Friday:
拉萨暴乱
今天是2008年3月14，白色情人节“也是我到拉萨的第25天。 可今天的拉萨并不太平，外面到处是暴乱份子，以前在内地从来没见过这种场面。 用恐怖也来形容也不为过。
杀人，放火，仍石头““ 外面一片黑暗。 到处冒烟。
武警都出动了“ 大街上面空无一人，店面全部关门了` 马路上都是暴乱份子扔的石头“`
People killed, fires lit, rocks thrown….it's all black outside, smoke everywhere.
The PAP are out in force..there's not a person to be seen on the main streets, shops are all shuttered up, and the streets are full of rioters throwing rocks…
QQ blogger ‘I Love Blue Sky', who appears to be involved in the travel industry, 4:01 pm Friday:
拉萨的动荡３月
昨天开会了，说是几个寺庙不让去了，
珠峰也不可以去，
哎，那这旅游还咋做啊 ，
那游客来拉萨还有什么好看的呢
今天，听说大昭寺那边又有动乱了，
很恐怖的，朋友们都打电话来，
让我不要到处乱走，
真是的，你说安定团结那里不好，
非要搞点事出来，
客人来了拉萨，还不让乱走，你说这旅游还咋做吗
Even Mt. Everest
So what am I supposed to do for this trip?
What else is there for tourists here in Lhasa to see?
Today, I heard there's been another disturbance at Jokhang Temple,
It's terrifying. Friends keep calling,
Telling me not to go wandering around,
Please, what's so bad about Stability and Unity?
Do you have to go making trouble?
The clients are here in Lhasa, but they're not allowed to go wandering around, what am I going to do for this tour?
现在是搞的人心惶惶的，
组团社那边，问出了什么事，
拉萨这边又让说是维修寺庙
世上那有不透风的墙呢？
The tour company is asking what's going on,
Here in Lhasa they're telling us to say that the temples are being renovated
Do they really think the walls are that air-tight?
Another QQ blog, Friday, 6:01 pm::
拉萨是个好地方
拉萨暴动…学校禁校…生日泡汤… 市里面打的那叫一个猛!军车一辆一辆的，手榴弹一颗一颗的扔，大昭寺周围被炸开花了，步行街被武警封了，温州商贸诚也被封了，石油公司貌似炸毁了… 长这么大没见过这世面…达lai真ta妈牛b!真希望赶紧把我们学校炸了!我转到人大去我!
From another QQ blog at 6:25 pm:
圣地的暴政【拉萨】
今天的拉萨没有莪想的那么圣洁了,在拉萨一直被人尊敬的拉萨成了暴政的源头,今天呆在岛里真的很郁闷,拉萨市好几家服装店被烧毁,全岛的居民都不准出岛,喇嘛扪跟警察打起来了,死伤现在还不知道,说实话长这么大莪真实是见过那么多的装甲车,还有那么多的坦克和大部队,莪想不明白眼前的这一切是为什么? 还说把莪扪汉人杀了`?全岛和拉萨市里的店都关门大吉了,因为都是莪扪汉人开的店…
中国政府每年对西藏拨款发展,到现在得到的是什么?这样的国内暴政会让中国更会发展吗?来到拉萨的时候感觉这朴实,是个适合自己发展的地方,也是赚钱的殿堂…因为这商机大机会也多,比如这两年开采矿物质,也给西藏带来了财富,青藏线的开通就跟不是新闻了.
Also on QQ, ‘Ice Dragon' at 6:26 pm:
08年3月14日拉萨喇嘛造反
今天下午武警，交警，特警全部出动于布达拉宫广场与拉萨百货大楼交界处
坦克，装甲车，消防车全部出动在布达拉宫前
到目前`特警伤几十人死几人
消防车被炸一辆
轿车被炸N辆，商店被烧几十家
四川人士死伤上百
大昭寺和小昭寺已经被烧毁！
朋友刚才来电说：现在拉萨各大小医院已经住满了病人！
（昨晚，在大昭寺几百名四川人士被打，13名当场死亡，80多人重伤）
This afternoon, PAP, traffic police and riot police all marched into Potala Palace Square to the Lhasa Department Store tower junction
Tanks, armored vehicles and firetrucks all moved into the front of Potala Palace
At present, riot police have injured dozens and killed severalcorrection:dozens of riot police have been injured and several killed
One fire truck has been blown up
Countless civilian cars have been blown up, and dozens of shops have been torched
Over a hundred Sichuanese have been killed
Jokhang Temple and Ramoche Temple have both already been burnt down!
A friend just called to say: all small and large hospitals in Lhasa are already full with patients!
(last night, several hundred Sichuanese got beaten in front of Jokhang Temple, 13 died at the scene, and 80 more were seriously hurt)
Another QQ blogger's post from 6:56 pm:
关于发生在今天的拉萨暴乱
经常在新闻中看到伊拉克战争，或是哪里又发生袭击事件，当时我就在里面感慨，还是做中国人幸福，至少是和平的，至少不会会有战争，至少人们不用生活在对战争的恐惧中！但今天发生在西藏的暴乱事件，却让我深深的感觉到，原来也有些人不想让我们中国平静、和平！不知道以后别的国家的人在看到我们中国的战争新闻时，是不是和我当初看伊拉克战争时的心情与感慨一样！
当今天那些疯狂的达赖教众在街上围堵殴打过往的汉族人时，当他们用打火机点燃一处又一处商铺时，当他们将火苗扔向停靠在路边的汽车时，我真的感觉到很害怕且不可思议。你们在毁坏的可是你们自己的家园，你们不是信仰活佛吗？难道这些是你们的活佛指示你们做的？是活佛指示你们尽情毁坏你们的家园的吗？我想这些大部分人都是没有想过的，大部分人都是被某些想分裂祖国的人的言辞所欺骗！但你们可以想想，是谁让西藏发展成今天的模样，是谁架起了西藏与全世界人民的桥梁，又是谁每年从内地调派各类人才到西藏来教与西藏孩子知识与文化，更是谁每年从祖国的各个发达城市播款来援藏！这些我想你们都已经忘记……
At 9:18 pm on Zoer's QQ Space:
拉萨暴乱了！刷机失败了！
3.14拉萨的喇嘛终于又“起义”了
砸车、放火、还干了点别的什么我不得而知
即使是我的体形
都不能轻易穿越武警和陆军人墙的间隙
更不想成为装甲车履带下的炮灰
哎~喇嘛，你怎么就不能像人家和尚那么安分点儿呢？
谁都知到你丫的做不了个啥
楞老在那起哄
学芙蓉JJ搏出位？代价也忒大了点儿！
Smashing cars, lighting fires, and other stuff I don't even know what
Even with my build
I can't easily get through the gaps in the PAP and army human wall
And I definitely don't want to end up cannon fodder beneath the tracks of the armored vehicles
Sigh..Lama, why can't you be more law-abiding like other monks?
Everyone knows you don't do anything
Just always making a commotion
Been learning from Hibiscus Sister on how to get attention have ya? The price is a little high, don't ya think?
Sunday update 2:
Davesgonechina at Tenement Palm continues his translation roundups of microblog posts on the situation in Tibet which people continue to put onto sites like Fanfou and Jiwai; on the latest batch he has now written:
Special Note: This is the perfect opportunity for Tibet internet activists like Oxblood Ruffin and concerned netizens everywhere to engage Chinese people on the Internet in discussions about what is going on. As I previously outlined in a primer to engage Chinese people, these are channels where one can register a free account and launch dialogues with Chinese individuals about Tibet. Many of the people I've included below are neither kneejerk nationalists or xenophobes, and some of them know some English too. It wouldn't hurt to try. You can respond by clicking on the username link at the beginning of each tweet, sign up, and talk back.
**One reader has written in asking to know why there are no apparent Tibetan voices in this post. This of course is not a deliberate omission but a problem of not being able to find them. Any such related links if left in the comments or sent to chinese [at] globalvoicesonline [dot] org will be translated swiftly and everyone's help is most welcome in this.
Update: Sunday, March 16:
QQ blogger ‘Zuoer' had a post of a series of apparently civilian photos taken at 2pm Sunday afternoon which have since been deleted but can be seen here (scroll halfway down).
As of Saturday, YouTube has been blocked in China. Little information seems to be coming out of Lhasa now, although micro-channels remain open. Phayul.com has cellphone video of a large number of monks demonstrating in the early afternoon of March 15 around Labrang Monastery in neighboring Gansu province.
Also on Saturday, EconThink MSN Spaces blogger Robert posted a notice from the local law authorities calling on those responsible for the “smashing, looting, burning and killing” to turn themselves in before March 17, saying that those who do may be exempt from punishment, and those who don't will be severely punished, the same for those who are found to be covering up for or harboring criminals. Protection is being offered for those who turn “criminals” in.
Further 03/16 update: Roland Soong at EastSouthWestNorth provides further translations, including one detailed eyewitness account of the extent of the violence that has been reposted on many Chinese blogs.
[...] in Tibet: siti per seguire la situazione in diretta. (Radio Free Asia, SFT, Global Voices, un [...]
[...] GlobalVoicesOnline的这则文章采用了相当多的在拉萨的汉人博客报道。这些博客基本上对藏人的暴力行动表示失望，不理解；另外一些人对拉萨的商业环境表示担忧。 可今天的拉萨并不太平，外面到处是暴乱份子，以前在内地从来没见过这种场面。 用恐怖也来形容也不为过。 [...]
have a look my article on the incident.
http://www.chineselives.info/2008/03/15/the-government-in-dilemma-set-up-by-tibet-mobs/
Geez, are average Chinese as clueless as these posters or are they simply proxy voices for Chinese Government propaganda, like this wicked “Chineselives” link above?
“who is it that sends aid from every developed city in the motherland each year to assist Tibet?” — Like that statue of Mao (the one who invaded Tibet to begin with) sent to Tibet under police guard? I wonder if the Chinese people would fight an invader or become “law-abiding” over night.
[...] Politics — fridayinlove @ 10:50 pm This week has not been peaceful for Tibet. According to posts on Internet from people living in Lhasa (found, compiled and translated by GlobalVoices, a [...]
[...] Tibet — fridayinlove @ 11:26 pm It has not been a peaceful week for Tibet. According to posts on Internet from people living in Lhasa (found, compiled and translated by GlobalVoices, a [...]
[...] as you would expect, the Tibetans and the Dalai Lama are squarely to blame. Chinese bloggers are saying the usual - why can’t the Tibetans just be law-abiding? Why can’t they just accept [...]
[...] fridayinlove It has not been a peaceful week for Tibet. According to posts on Internet from people living in Lhasa (found, compiled and translated by GlobalVoices, a [...]
wow。。。the blogs are just great in terms of reporting on the ground。。very impressive。
[...] Tibet transitioned into total lockdown and videos of the violent situation proliferated on YouTube, people began noticing Saturday afternoon in China that the video-sharing [...]
[...] reacties van bloggende Chinezen zullen een geruststelling voor de regering zijn. Schijnbaar werkt zo’n Nazi-praatje dan [...]
[...] Globalvoices har indsamlet kommentarer fra [...]
I feel sorry for the Han, they may be the only people on earth not aware of the horrific atrocities that have been afflicted on the Tibetan people through the decades by the Chinese government.
A 1999 report by a visiting dignitary from Australia:
http://www.bobbrown.org.au/files/campaigns/extras/Tibet%20Report.pdf
2006 footage of Tibetan Pilgrims being massacred by Chinese soldiers:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BkMcj4vQtRU&feature=related
The fact Han people have no clue why these riots and separatists existed is a part of a carefully calculated program of “culture assimilation”, or in Dalai Lama’s saying: “cultural extinction / genocide”. Their reaction made me think about the cold talk between Israel-Pakistan and Serbia-Kosovo, where ignorance pave the way to war and hell.
But still, great thanks for John to turn our attention into deeper mindful and practical dialogue.
to R. Elgin
I don’t know whether I have been brainwashed or you have been brainwashed. Why every person in developed western countries always think we are voice of goverment? I have been UK for 5 years, I am still working here. I have experienced your freedom or democracy for a long time. I admit it is good, but that doesn’t mean it is suitable for every country. I am here, not speaking for my goverment. I am speaking for my country. Most of you, don’t even know chinese, you received all information that have been filtered by your media. How could you know the truth and the thought of all chinese? I am feeling very sad for you.
[...] John Kennedy is keeping track of new information on the riots in Tibet and the Chinese crack-down in this post. Snippets of news are coming out via micro-blogs like Twitter, but otherwise it’s mostly [...]
I feel very sorry for those all you ignorant and arrogant westerners who know lilttle about China and a part of it, Tibet, and still think that you know much more about 1.3 billion Chinese, nearly 20% of the humanity. SHAME on you.
Rioters are only numbers in thousands if not in hundreds. The thugs (who beat and killed ordinary Hans, Huis, and other Chinese minorities like stray dogs) account for only a small percentage of Tibetan people (just like those ex- serf-owners in exile were a tiny part of the old Tibet), but they are many enough to do too much damage.
Even your much biased media (on one issue or another, one people or another people, like Arabs or Jews, then Paliasteinians or Jews etc) had to call those violent acts RIOTS, because they can’t filter out individual accounts as they used to, thanks to Internet. Just think that!
You guys are making a lot of progresses, though. 20 years ago, you guys would have more biased thoughts.
Don’t forget: vast majority of the officials in Tibet are Tibetans. Just think about that!!
A lot of breaking News and Analysis of the Tibet Unrest on the blog of Students for a Free Tibet – written by young Tibetans as well as non-Tibetan SFT activists in the U.S., India, Europe,and elsewhere:
http://blog.studentsforafreetibet.org/
Clearly we Chinese are mainly targeting at those rioters but not Tibetans in general. Why do you think that the rioters are representatives of the Tibetan people, a part of us? Do you really think that the Tibetan people are a violent people? You have to make up your mind!!
Hui Chinese, most Americans and Canadians who talk about Tibet, they are not interested in talking to you.
They want to talk at you as if you are some kind of subhuman. And they do it while completely ignoring the blood soaked ground we are standing on.
I think “Kettle, meet pot” is a very good reply to those people who still think they are the old ma’sas…
A thought from an arrogant ignorant westerner:
In America in the 1960’s African Americans took to the streets in many American cities looting and rioting. The impetus was perceived oppression and frustration with continued denial of civil liberties and equality. What has not survived is the idea that the African Americans who rioted were at fault for being violent and ungrateful minority citizens. What has survived is the idea that they were incited to violence by REAL LEGAL INJUSTICE. Those who immediately felt that the rioters were wrong have been since popularly evaluated as racist oppressive reactionaries.
I do not ‘hate’ the backwards, murderous Chinese government. Is that okay?
Sheesh!
“chineselives”, I know Chinese pretty well since I live quite close to China and I wear no filters that can not see.
I noticed how you changed your posting, in your blog from:
“American cops shot dead black Americans who rob unmanned stores in New Orleans, which was regarded as righteous.”
to:
“American cops shot dead black Americans who rob unmanned stores in New Orleans, which was regarded as righteous measure by police side.”
Is there any other gross mis-characterization of Americans you would like to use to justify the criminal behaviour of China’s Government towards Tibet and other minorities in China proper?
I have one question for all 1.3 billion “proud” Chinese: If you guys are so proud, how come you don’t even demand that you have the right to elect your government? Now you have gotten so ball-less that you are afraid even if some other colonised country asks that their dictatorial criminals go away. Come on guys, if you don’t have the courage to stand up to the thugs who rule you, at least allow others who have the courage to do so.
[...] what is happening in Tibet right now (see here and here and here for more), what we find most striking are the discrepancies between representations in [...]
Why do the Chinese think they know China so well? As someone who has been speaking Chinese for 33 years and has done in depth research and study of China and Tibet, I have found that the vast majority of educated Chinese that I have met have very little knowledge of their own country’s history and even less on Tibet other than what has been force fed to them by their educational authorities. Tibet is a very complicated subject, but many of the Chinese arguments about Tibet, would by extension mean that all of Southeast Asia should be part of China along with Korea and certainly Mongolia as well. How many really know about the Liao Dynasty, about the Xi Xia? about how Imperial China bribed the nomadic cultures on their borders to leave them in peace? How many use Yuan (a Mongol dynasty) and Qing (a Manchu dynasty) to justify their territorial claims in outbursts of Han chauvinism? And what of the role of Buddhism in China? The problem with the Han and other minority people’s basically boils down to Han arrogance (we are civilized and modern, while they are backwards and cute because they dance and sing well and wear strange clothes)
Yes, the rioters struck out at Han and Hui migrants and that is very very wrong. But why are they so angry? I wrote papers in University on ethnic violence and overseas Chinese communities in Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia where the local people struck out against the Han…. ever wonder why?????? If the CCP wasn’t so brutal and thuggish from its own history, the problems in Tibet could have been worked out peacefully.
It is so sad… for both sides and god knows what will happen this summer with the Olympics. I fear a lot of hurt feelings based on ignorance out there.
Oh well.
You should never trust the Western Media. It is amazing how well coordinated and well worded they make the current incident seems. They constantly used the word “protest” instead of the word “riot”. And it is consistent too. The source of course is either from Reuters or AP. There needs to be another more reliable source of news for the internet. Of course the prevalent language is English and most English speakers get their brainwashed news from Reuters or AP. I didn’t realized how stupid these English speakers were until recent years. And I have been in the West most of my life. It is amazing how the world is still being run by a minority. The West is obviously still in control. It is just another coordinated effort to bring more instability to a growing power like China. It is just a way to retain power in the West. The Chinese should see the West in its true light. They don’t intent to bring freedom or democracy to anybody, that is just BS. Nobody truly cares about Tibet or Tibetans. The true intention is to cause trouble for China.
obviously tibet is a rogue state in a powerful nation which every major nation in the world has to deal with. In Russia we have chechnya and Serbia had Kosovo. The UN is sitting back on their heels and letting nations slowly devolve, it is time to not allow rogue territories declare their independence.
i am completely against the authoritarian government in the PRC and personally would revel in its ruination, but however this being said protesters who turn violent must be dealt with, as Americans we dealt with the protests against the vietnam war in the same way with repression by means of force. At times like these a nation must defend its borders through force, in international politics military strength is the only means to defend oneself and i do not blame china for using a forceful mean in order to suppress the tibetans.
The US is not critical rather it is pathetic militarily worthless nations that are besought by such ideology. The Russians have not been critical either, and all the british have said is that there is a need for restraint, the french who themselves are surrender monkeys dont know how to use force and that is why they cannot contain the riots in their own borders. A nation has the right to deal with its people in its own way, and in China’s case they clearly will not feel the heat from the liberal idiots at Amnesty International, its obvious they really dont care, no nation will follow through with a threat to pull out and the UN security council will not move on this action so seriously this is a nonissue except for some hippies who smoked too much weed
@A West
Some advice. Pointing to conspiracy doesn’t show how much smarter you are than the “stupid masses”, it only shows how much disdain you have for them.
[...] unrest in Lhasa and updates on the flow of information in and out of Tibet. They include a link to a site posting translations of microblog posts by Chinese netizens on sites similar to [...]
[...] fires rage on in the streets of Lhasa, bloggers in another part of the world have been anxiously following developments in Tibet with [...]
laisee,
Oversea Chinese are beaten in Malaysia and ELSEWHERE because in some way, they deserve to be beaten as they are in Tibet, according to you, right? White people are not beaten but beating others because they are a master race, right?
Most Chinese know less than about China much more than most westerners.
I am quite sure that most Chinese who can post here are more educated than you are about China and its history. Did you even read Goldstein’s books, who are less biased than you are willing to accept even he is married to an exile Tibetan?
Laisee,
You mentioned that you wrote violence against ethnic Chinese in Thailand at an academic level. That was ridiculous, don’t you think?
Chinese in Thailand generally have been fully integrated into its society, and have intermarried with others. Few of them can even say ANY variety of Chinese dialects. Many if not most of them have mixed blood.
I doubt that you even know the situations in Malaysia or even Idonesia, two countries sharing some similiarities but also having many differences. They actually had different policies against Chinese. You can’t discss the the issues there without mentioning the mess that the Master Race left behind.
March 14, 2008: Lhasa’s Lama’s rebel
到目前`特警伤几十人死几人
At present, riot police have injured dozens and killed several.
Words are mere camaflagous….this is so true after I read the above english translation. I cannot help but start to question the neutrality of the translator on this matter.
“死”means death or to die. In modern Chinese, the word is never used as a transitive verb (i.e. to kill or to make someone dead) In light of this, I think the sentence means something very different, don’t you think so?
The correct translation is “At present, dozens of riot police have injured and several were killed.”
I strongly advise people whom I sincerely hope still have an open mind to embrace differences and new perspectives to read through the following links. I know it’s difficult to read something that goes against your view, but at least try.
(Tibet diary by two Tibet Independence advocates)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnPlAoLeAy8&feature=related
http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/11/opinion/11zizek.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
I am Tibetan am proud to be Tibetan even though in Tibet I would be treated as second class citizen. I never blamed or felt hatred towards Chinese people for all hardships I went through in my life being separated from my parents, living and growing up in orphanage. I even had a Chinese best friend in high school and had long discussions on politics with her. Eventually we decided we are better off not touching the subject if we are to maintain healthy friendship. For years I have been having nightmares that Chinese military are attacking my little orphanage, taking away people I love and then fires. I have seen different version of same stories, even while I am far away from China, and I can still feel so much resentment, how about people who live in Tibet and face my demons on daily basis. How long can you really keep living without questioning, keeping your head low and going about your business? Tibetans are humans too, who can feel anger, pain and hope. Hope that someday they will be thought of as equal to their Chinese neighbors, are able to worship without constant fear, and be able to see their Dalai Lama.
My Tibetan friend who went to Chinese military school at very young age speaks Chinese to his Tibetan dad on phone because he wants his dad to be proud of him. As Chinese and some Tibetans in Tibet, see Chinese speaking Tibetan kid in higher standing. Why speaking your own mother tongue looked down upon in Tibet? We have been patient and compassionate toward the Chinese Government for over 50 years. What have we Tibetans gotten back? More refugees in neighboring countries, being second class citizen in our own land, distrust, arrests, and tortures from our Chinese government. In name of modernizing Tibet, new speed railway system has made us minority in our own land, natural beauty had been substituted with dams and other massive projects.
Chinese’s solution to Tibetan problem has been to severe crackdown, re-education, blame it on Dalai Lama and hoping to silent all so called “separatist”. If they thought of us as their equal they would have tried to resolve the issue by dialogue and respecting the most crucial element to Tibetans their religion. To Tibetans their religion is the way life and culture; everything is and revolves around religion. Religion is their heart and soul, and you can’t take that away from them.
[...] wouldn’t see what’s happening inside Tibet, I investigated a bit further and found this and this. Both articles are worth reading! Anyhow: The second one I about anonymous [...]
Laisee,
Modern nations were formed through bloody conflicts (Europe and its colonies all over the world), racial conflicts (Egypt and much of its neighbors), religious conflicts (India and Pakistan), linguistic differences (a couple of Slavic states by mere differences in alphabets). This statement even applies for supposedly homogeneous states like Mongolia and Korea. Even Manchu before its onslaughters had nearly half
Liao that you mentioned had 40% of its population being of Han heritage. Your concept of nation states only holds some ground in Europe where modern nation states started in strongest strength. Britain, Belgium, Spain, and Baltic States.
Chinese has no ambition for southeast Asia. It is ridiculous for you to mention that “but many of the Chinese arguments about Tibet, would by extension mean that all of Southeast Asia should be part of China”. China never stationed in most of its troops in the SE Asia areas that you mentioned, but China had sizable troops and dozens of overseeing Ambans in there. Your comparision of Tibet with Southeast Asia “from” Chinese angle is simply preposterous. I have yet to see any Chinese making that kind of argument.
Old Tibet was a brutal regime. Even members of its ruling class had been poisoning one each other to gain upper hands. Just imagine what they could do to Tibetan serfs, if you have no idea. To think that it could be peacefully transformed is foolish or naive.
excellent post. hopefully the GV initiative can bring opposing views together.
I am a Malaysian and I know the situation in Malaysia better. There is no difficulties for Chinese here. They are doing much better compared to any other race in Malaysia.
There is no such thing happening to Chinese here like in Tibet or even in China. No one is taking their land or anything. With recent election, the majority Chinese in Penang island ( one of Malaysian state )was won by a mainly Chinese party.
Who ever talking about Chinese being beaten in Malaysia knows crap about what you are saying! It may be true in Indonesia, but not here. It may happen 40 years ago, but not for the last 4 decades here in Malaysia.
“到目前`特警伤几十人死几人”
http://www.xn--27vz9mqt7a.com/2008/03/15/%E4%BA%B2%E5%8E%86%E6%8B%89%E8%90%A8%E9%AA%9A%E4%B9%B1-%E6%9D%A5%E8%87%AA%E9%A9%BB%E5%9C%B0%E6%91%84%E5%BD%B1%E5%B8%88%E7%9A%84%E6%8A%A5%E9%81%93/
From the context, clearly the translation was very wrong.
The original message actually says that “tens of riot police were injured and a few of them were killed, and nearly a hundred of non-Tibetans from the neighboring Sichuan were killed.” Notice that this information is not confirmed, but one can tell that the violence was frightening to non-Tibetan Chinese (Hans and Huis etc).
What an inner upheaval those monks must be having to riot when they are so steeped in non-violent teachings of Buddha. This is where the rubber meets the road – one believes in non-violence but how long can one remain non-violent in the face of extinction of one’s culture?
http://www.iivs.de/~iivs01311/SDLE/Part-2-04.htm
Take a look at the damage made by “demonstrators” and people hurt by “demonstrators”. These “demonstrators” are actually a gang of mobs, they cannot represent peaceful common Tibetans. Noble Prize in Peace to Dalai Lama? Such a joke!
To say that Malaysia Chinese (or Indians or non-Malays) face no difficulty is more than an understatement.
Just think about the NEP (exclusively on race but not on needs) that has given Malays unqualified advantages over others for over 40 years, and that has been promoted by the leading party to extend for many years to come.
Even numerous top non-Malay students in the country were denied by universities. Many many many many Chinese have to go abroad to study. Even though much more educated and much better academically on average than others, Chinese have miserable representaions in academic facilities. Not mentioning in military forces where Chinese were literally driven out.
Non-Malays account for 40% (?) of the Malaysia population, and many of them live very concentratedly in their own large areas.
Chinese had their biggest beatings, and they are scared to get another one.
In Malaysia, a fight between an ordinary Malay and an ordinary Chinese generally wouldn’t hurt the Malay more than the Chinese. In Tibet or elsewhere in China, monorities are always OFFICIALLY favored in a similar confrontation between an ordinary Han and an ordinary minority person.
Bully against Chinese does exist in Malaysia. But the concensus among the Chinese is that “we should avoid any major confrontation, or we would get hurt badly once again.”
Here is a contrast of what is posted on CNN and what the complete photo looks like:
http://club.pchome.net/topic_1_15_2023147__.html
The difference between the picture on the right hand side and the one on the left hand side says it all. There are lots of facts floating around. CNN just happens to pick up the ones that are most convenient to them.
Killers can be portrayed as victims. Criminals are now freedom fighters….it’s just baffling and shocking to me.
It’s time to realize that the “good old time” for the monks and aristocracy in Tibet is long gone; “the good old time” to have 4000 slaves to work to death for you is long gone.
Dalai Lama and rest, maybe you should just quit it and deal with the reality that the friendship and ties among the 56 ethnicities in China is ever stronger. The real voice of love, peace and stability will reveal your true face. Smiling to the rest of the world saying nice things does not legitimize your underground operation to murder so many oridnary tibetans and ethnic chinese simply to realize your political ambition.
Be a man, do the right thing, and call off your man’s terroristic acts in tibet, China. You know you can do it.
Please fix the translation for
“到目前`特警伤几十人死几人”
IT DOESN’T MEAN
“At present, riot police have injured dozens and killed several”
It means
“At present, dozens of police have BEEN injured and several of them have BEEN killed”
You got it completely opposite!
Tenzing Lhadon,
I found your statements are hard to understand.
1. If you were “being separated from my parents” then why did you end up “living and growing up in orphanage”? Almost all if not all orphanages were sponsored or financed by governments.
2. “For years…I … having nightmares that Chinese military are attacking my little orphanage, taking away people I love and then fires. I have seen different version of same stories.” This is perhaps the most bizazare story ever heard from Tibet. Did they destroy those orphanages? Please tell us what are those orphanages’ names and addresses so that we can make sure they still exist after those military attacks?
[...] de ese día. Sin embargo, gracias a la comunidad blogger la información no se ha detenido. En este post de Global Voices hay fragmentos con sus traducciones de entradas en blogs y sitios de esta región que hablan de las [...]
Indeed, Zeng, take a look at these “demonstrators”. These “demonstrators” are actually a gang of mobs, they cannot represent peaceful common Chinese, they even burned down houses:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Fourth_Movement
What a joke!
If you looked at “The Wall Street Journal” on March 17, 2008. Vol 63. Page A1-A3. You will find a interesting combination of news. one is about J.P.Morgan buys Bear Stearns, one is about Iraq, 5 years on, A nation of Refugees, and there is also a long story about Tibet, about how Tibet has been suppressed from democracy by China. It is interesting because US media said exactly the same thing about Iraq 5 years ago that Iraq has been suppressed from democracy. The truth is if US thinks it will ever lack of targets for robbing resources such as oil to satisfy its greedy bankers and its mafia-like government and etc..(think why the subprime crisis happened again if it is not greediness), they will make up excuse to break up the other countries shamelessly! US ruined Iraq, US backed up the breakup of Kosovo from SerBia, US backed up Chechen against Russia, US backed up opposite leader Buto of Pakistan. So you think US is going to save all those “democracy suppressed region” like they save Iraq?….big joke, To break and suck the benefit out of those confused region and trash them is the only purpose of US. As if US knows what is the best for Iraqis, I am sure they know the best for Tibet and the rest of world. Shame on US idiot that you think you can fool the whole world. Just like the collapse of your greedy banks, all your evil intents will be defeated.
[...] Global Voices Online ‽ China: Fire on the streets of Lhasa, Tibet John Kennedy’s translations from the Chinese blogosphere demonstrate that there’s very little sympathy within the Han Chinese blogosphere for protesting Tibetans (tags: blogs globalvoices globalization china tibet xenophilia xenophobia) [...]
[...] Global Voices has eyewitness accounts of paramilitary activity around Chengdu’s Tibetan quarter: Though I’m off on business, mom is still at home in Chengdu, and my office is there, so through regular phone calls back I’ve gathered the following information: Beginning on the 17th, this part of Chengdu, which is where the most number of ethnic Tibetans live, has been under lockdown; no cars allowed to enter, and many camouflage-wearing PAP who came in on over 10 vehicles are armed and doing patrols. The office has stopped counting if people show up late, and nobody is allowed to do overtime at night, and people are going home early. Kangding hotel right across from my home (a 3-star hotel opened by a Tibetan), according to rumors, has already had some of its higher-ups arrested, and there’ve been incidents of bloodshed (unconfirmed, this is just what everyone is saying) There’s word out of Tibet too, that ten tons of explosives were brought into Chengdu and then disappeared……a friend of a friend in Tibet told him that. Stay away from plazas, the train station, or places with lots of people. Use public transportation with caution. I was just in the crowd and got the latest info! Chengdu’s military district has already gone on highest alert, and troops have now been dispatched toward Tibet. Wuhouci Rd. going both north and south have been completely sealed off, cars aren’t allowed in. Ximianqiao St. going both east and west has been completely sealed off, cars aren’t being allowed in. Shuhan Rd. and another side street are completely filled with police cars which have stopped all traffic. A rough estimate, there’s over 200 police, and over 100 police cars of every kind. There’s also around 50 police motorbikes, patrolling the streets non-stop in formations of groups of three. Where Wuhouci Rd. E meets Wuhouci Rd. W, there are also fire trucks. Both Wuhouci and Ximianqiao streets have completely become pedestrian streets, not a single car on either. Walking down the streets all you see are flashing police lights. Right now, you do not want to go into crowded areas and start pushing around. The tons of explosives they shipped here to Chengdu from Tibet aren’t to be seen now, they’ve disappeared. Police sent out an internal notice warning a few days ago, that [bleep]ists had entered Chengdu in an attempt to carry out terrorist strikes. These people have spent years overseas studying demolitions and are highly skilled at it, with cruel methods. Experienced police from all over Chengdu have been transferred here. [...]
One thing that can be said for China is that it is an unapologetic monster, but how about our corporations and political leaders who have turned their backs in Tibet in favor of corporate interests and the Genocide Olympics?
China must be permanently deconstructed and MNC executives be relentlessly flogged.
badbadchina.blogspot.com
[...] concentrados, o projeto Global Voices Online entrou em ação e começou a traduzir para o inglês posts de blogueiros chineses que estavam conseguindo cobrir os acontecimentos no [...]
Alex, Hope and Hui Chinese, thank you all for pointing out that translation error. Upon reflection, it doesn’t seem like an easy mistake to make, and I apologize. I’ve made the correction according to your suggestions, and I appreciate the time you’ve taken to check for accuracy in the translations here. Any help you provide in the future will be equally appreciated.
Thanks again! John
Here is a book by the disillusioned founder of Free Tibet Campaign.
http://www.gbcc.org.uk/iss25bookreview.htm
some of you make me understand from your comments that the chinese are doing so many sacrifices to bring economic development and education in Tibet, you also are being “bullied” by tibetans and still being punished (so you are in fact the “second class citizens”, not the tibetans) and you’re also helping them not to become slaves of the monks.
why don’t you let Tibet choose it’s own way and be free? why do you keep “making sacrifices” for the tibetans, pour money in their land and forcibly educate the damned peasants, since all you’ve got is the hard work and no reward (not even the people are grateful to you)?
this is not pejorative, this is a serious question..
[...] For reactions from the Chinese media and blogosphere, see Rebecca MacKinnon at RConversation, Roland at ESWN and John Kennedy at Global Voices [...]
I have personally know several Laissee type people. They are much more informed than the western mass who just get all their knowledge from Brad Pit, Mia Farrow, Richard Gere, and all. The years of effort of acquiring the depth of info puzzle them even more about the longevity of Chinese culture: why this “corrupt”, materialistic, and atheist culture can survive for so long, and may even have a come back today?
sure, Song dynasty has lot less territory than China today, and was squeezed by all those nomad “countries”. But modern countries are not just products of natural ethic boundaries, historical artifacts, or moral judgment. The geopolitical reality and military might are probably more important than anything else. China can lay the same claim to Vietnam, Korea and others as to Tibet, but the reality is the China can only selectively enforce the claim on Tibet, not in Korea or Vietnam. Asking China to let Tibet independent is more like asking US to give the land back to native tribes. 150 years ago the European countries wanted to reign in the emerging power of continental US, but failed. Today “western” mass, educated or otherwise, looks at emerging China with dismay and contempt, and wants to find a way to reign it in, and that may fail as well.
seems the main voices in Chinese netizens is blaming&mocking western media such as CNN BBC for “make fake news” and “misleading report”.
in newsmth.net, one of the largest internet forum in PCR,
the only topic relevant to tibet in today’s 十大热门话题(top 10 hotest threads) is “纽约时报今天的恶心指数超过CNN(today’s New York Times is more disgusting than CNN)” accusing a misleading article title and picture on nytimes website.
i downloaded the whole topic and put it here:
http://rapidshare.com/files/100500726/newsmth.zip.html
四川人士死伤上百
you translated the above wrong.
It should be:
“Up to 100 Szechuanese were injured or dead”
not
“over 100 Szechuanese were dead”
Remember the French Revolution? It had to happen. Nothing can stop the uprising of innocent people.
Hi, John,
I appreciate your candid reponse to your translation error and your sincere interest in the Tibet situation. Before answering your question, I’d like to share with you a bit of context that could make things a little easier.
Tibet has historically been a theocracy. Aristorats and lamas enjoy absolute power over the peasants. They can do anything they want to their slaves, and they indeed did. However, buddhism should be a symbol of peace, you ask??? Well, Tibetan Buddhism is very different from the kind of buddhism the general public know. Tibetan monks CAN eat meat, drink, kill and have sex…that’s right….they are allowed to do things which the buddhism I know in the rest of China strictly forbids.
Under theocracy, senior lamas or the pilgrams they ordain can choose young virgin girls to have sex as a way to practice meditation and achieve enlightment. (阴阳双修) Such practice were then banned after the theocracy was overturn (You can read more about Tibetan buddism at many websites, lots of them are in Chinese, for example: http://www.ooccult.com/article.asp?id=51 I assueme you have good chinese language ability, you can also google “藏密佛教” to get a more information)
I hope this can give you some alternative perspective on the tibetan buddhist monks the western world overwhelmingly see as peaceful and non-violent. I have no bias against Tibetan buddhism, by the way, other than the teenager girl raping practice, there are parts of the religon that fascinates me. All I try to convey is that never trust appearances….never trust any media, take all the information with a grain of salt and reach your own informed judgedment.
I will address your question in the next post.
John,
Here are the answers to your questions.
Why aren’t people grateful to han Chinese after we did so much for the Tibetan population? Why don’t the Tibetan decides for themselves?
I feel obligated to point out the that PEOPEL you are referring to ONLY include the lamas, monks and decendents of aristorats that had lost their land and superiority after the theoracy breakdown. They just made you think that they represent the majority and the peaceful image of buddhism certainly helps their end.
Instead of staying in Tibet to do more good to ordinary Tibetans, these VOLUNTARY exiles are the people who got tremendous support from the US, British and other western government for political purposes. They are either well educated in English…or at least knows how to speak english and has the entire powerful western media to support their voice. Whatever they say, truth or not, was “understandable” by the western world and gets amplified many times through out the world.
There are many many hard working ordinary Tibetans who do not just sit around, praying and demand others to feed themselves like the lamas. As religious as they are, they are hungary for opportunities and a decent life. A life in which they can enjoy the result of their own labor and be an independent citizen of the country. There are still lots of work to be done and tons of young volunteers from more developed regions in China know this. What do they do? They went to tibet, to teach, to design and build infrastructures, to practice medicine, forgoing their plan to study abroad or become white collar workers in the city. We don’t want anything in return, tibet is part of our 56 ethnic family, they are our brothers and sisters, these are what people do if they are a family, don’t you think? This is what I call the true spirit of buddhism and all other religions that sends out messeges of peace, love and sacrifice.
As long as the western media propagenda exists, as long as the separists still uses religion and fear to control and gain privilege, ordinary Tibetan people remains vulnerable. They don’t know english as well as the exile separists, who will be their voice? I assure you, democracy will become democrazy. Democracy in this still poor region will be so fragile that you will see monks and lamas taking over the area in no time, even it is against the will of the majority of Tibetan people. After all, they were ordained by the heaven to rule, aren’t they?
Even in the US, a mature democracy, candidates winning the popular votes can’t become the president, how do you think we feel comfortable to blindly apply this system to a population that still struggle to jump over the poverty line? We had enough revolutions in our history, we want democracy, but it takes time, so that democracy doesn’t come at the cost of the interests of the Chinese people and the country.
We will keep pouring in more money, more resource into the region to lift more people out of poverty. Just as mother teresa says:
If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives. Be kind anyway.
What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.
Give the best you have, and it will never be enough. Give your best anyway.
Hope these answers your qeustion and help others gain a better picture of the world we live in.
If you can read Chinese, you can also get some information from Chinese website in North America.
For an example:
http://www.sinoquebec.com/bbs/printthread.php?t=523875&page=3&pp=30
John, will you measure your “let Tibet choose it’s own way and be free” against Canada’s continued occupation of First Nations?
In essence you are asking the Chinese to ignoring the “long, complicated history”, “existing statehood”, “established sovereignty” - and decimate their country’s “territoial integrety”.
Are we willing to measure ourselves with the same bar, when we demand “Tibetean Independence”?
BTW, all the quoted terms are things I’ve heard in US that rationalizes our contiued occupation of Native Americans.
[...] así como muchos ciudadanos chinos están de acuerdo en que no se puede generalizar a todos los tibetanos por unos cuantos "gañanes", otros se ensañan con ellos [...]
The events in Tibet clearly demonstrate the utter failure of the Chinese policies. Those protestors are not rioters or thugs as some have commented…they are true heroes of Tibet and it is an act of desperation. The pressure has been building up and those chinese don’t give a damn. Religious freedom was controlled and the athiest Communist Govt. started meddling in the religious affairs going far enough to declare that they will look for the next Dalai Lama. WHAT A BUNCH OF JOKERS!!! The Panchen Lama-next to the Dalai Lama is still in prison and he was arrested when he was six years old. Yes SIX! And they installed their own Lama clearly marked “Made in China” and for us he is just an ordinary guy or Chinese Puppet. The chinese need to have some human feelings..you can’t treat the Tibetans like you treat your dogs and monkeys. And Chinese paramilitary police are shooting randomly into the crowd , killing the protesters will further flame the flame of freedom. Free TIBET! CHINA OUT OF TIBET!
John, why does China try to pour money into Tibet? There are two good practical reasons. First, doing such allows it to reinforce its claim to this territory and is a part of its efforts to Han-ize this area. Secondly, there are minerals and oil there which the Chinese Government wants badly:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/natres/oil/China/2001/0905disc.htm
http://chinaspy.org/2007/01/25/china-finds-mineral-oil-deposits-along-tibet-rail/
It does not take much guessing as to why China now has more incentive to claim that Tibet has always been “Chinese”. Regardless of riches, the Chinese Government’s policy towards these people has not been benevolent and they have actively attempted to destroy any Tibetan identity since it presents them with a political and social problem. Oddly enough, the Chinese Communist Party is far more capitalistic than America has ever been and far more willing to use force to get what they want or to suppress any civil dissent. They are not real Communists, just immoral, undemocratic leaders that lead by direct and implicit force. Most wise Chinese understand this too and say nothing.
To Mr.Hope(the nick suits you)
YES WE ARE GRATEFUL TO THE HAN CHINESE FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1.FOR OCCUPYING TIBET..
2.FOR THE DEATH OF 1.2 MILLION TIBETANS AND STILL COUNTING..
3.FOR LOOTING AND DESTROYING OUR CENTURIES OLD MONASTERIES..
4.FOR REDUCING THE TIBETANS TO A MINORITY IN THEIR OWN LAND..
5.FOR THE RELIGOUS AND SOCIAL FREEDOM LOST..
6.FOR THE LARGE SCALE DEFORESTATION FROM SE TIBET..
7.FOR UPROOTING THE TIBETAN WAY OF LIFE…
8.FOR THE IMPORT OF PROSTITUTES FROM CHINA THUS DEFYING THE SANCTITY OF THE HOLY CITY OF LHASA…
9.FOR TORTURING AND KILLING OF TIBETAN POLITICAL PRISONERS..
10.FOR THE UTTER LACK OF BASIC AMENITIES IN MOST TIBETAN TOWNS AND VILLAGES..
11.FOR DISTORTING HISTORICAL FACTS..DO YOU KNOW THAT THE CHINESE WERE DRIVEN OUT OF TIBET IN 1912 DURING THE 13TH DALAI LAMA AND TIBET PROCLAIMED ITS INDEPENDENCE…
12.FOR THE INHUMANE TREATMENT OF EVEN 12-13 YR. OLDS WHEN THEY TOOK TO THE STREETS..I AM TALKING ABOUT DRAPCHI NUNS..
13.FOR TAKING AWAY OUR HUMAN RIGHTS..OH OH… YOU GUYS IN CHINA DON’T HAVE THIS ONE…
14.FOR DESTROYING OUR ENVIRONMENT
SO STOP DICTATING YOUR GOVT. PROPAGANDA..LOOK AND LISTEN TO ALL SIDES AND ANGLES, ONLY THEN WILL YOU KNOW THE TRUTH. THE CHINESE HAVE TAKEN AWAY MORE THAN THEY HAVE INVESTED IN TIBET-PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
FREE TIBET!!!
In fact,the governmental troops or policemen didn’t kill any comman people on purpose beijing keep enough restraint this time,dalai lama doesn’t win the support of the young generation of tibetan,beijing allocat