Bridge-blogging has taken on a whole new meaning now in China since armies of multilingual netizens started scouring the known media universe last month for inaccuracy or distortions in reports regarding China or, more specifically, Tibet.
Though there was no mention of the anti-China protests which took place in London today on Chinese state-owned media and very little to be seen on all incoming media, many people inside and out of China are quite capable in English, and it took about nine seconds for someone at anti-CNN.com to find reason to start yet another ‘anti-CNN' thread: the large torch-welcoming protest held by London's Chinese community near 10 Downing Street wasn't covered today by the BBC.
From YouTube user cnsunshugmail:
Why on BBC's all day live coverage I only see tibet protests but never see supporting Beijing Olympic from Chinese students like this video? Is western medias really impartial like they claim them are? And do they still have the right to blame Chinese media censorship?
From anti-CNN.com thread ‘censored!! chinese protest in London you never see on BBC':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8cuVFuwKbk
请大家支持这个视频。让更多人看到！！！！
有可能无法观看，请善用代理软件。
如果实在没法看，但是肯定可以打开网页。也请在点下Favorite和Rate 下的第五颗星星！！
This video has been taken on 6/04/08
(中文下面）Chinese students protest against western media bias and welcoming the Olympic torch arrival in London.The location is near the number 10 downing street Whitehall, Westminster - London.
The BBC report shows the free Tibet groups nearby but near show the Chinese student's protest. SHAME ON YOU BBC.
2008年4月6日在伦敦唐宁街首相府附近拍摄的中国学生和爱国人士的爱国迎接奥运圣 火游行。 这次游行有来自全英国各地的同胞，远到苏格兰，曼城。在游行中大家自豪的高唱国歌 ，对过来挑衅的藏DU人士大声叱喝。 我在唱国歌的时候差点感动到流下眼泪，不得不哽咽的坚持唱下去。我们在海外的学子是多 么的团结！！！
我们的游行队伍大概和旁边的藏DU不相上下，但是BBC的新闻中完全没有报道我们。 让我对BBC 彻底失望。 希望在接下来的圣火传递中，我们的兄弟同胞能团结一致站起来，喊出我们中华民族的心声 ！
Everybody, please support this video. Let more people see it!!!!
You might not be able to view it, so try using proxy software.
If you still can't watch it, you should still be able to open the page. So please click ‘Favorite' and rate it with five stars!!
This video has been taken on 6/04/08
(see Chinese text below）Chinese students protest against western media bias and welcoming the Olympic torch arrival in London.
The location is near the number 10 downing street Whitehall, Westminster - London.
The BBC report shows the free Tibet groups nearby but near show the Chinese student's protest. SHAME ON YOU BBC.
On April 6 Chinese students and patriots held a march near the Prime Minister's office on Downing St. to welcome the Olympic torch. Co-patriots came from all over England to march, from as far as Scotland and Manchester. During the march everybody sang the national anthem proudly and loudly, and was shouting loudly at the pro-Tibetan *****endence people who came to provoke. Singing the national anthem, I was almost moved to tears, and even though I was choking I had to keep on singing. See how united we overseas students are!!!
Our procession was about the same size as the pro-Tibetan *****endence one beside us, but BBC News didn't report on us at all. This leaves me so disappointed in the BBC. I hope that in the coming torch relays, our brother-compatriots can unite together and stand up, and shout with the voice of the Chinese people!
支持~~支持~~支持~~
看不到视频。。。。。。
From another anti-CNN.com thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8cuVFuwKbk 中国加油，中国人加油！
可惜国内总是被屏蔽。。。
什么也看不到，这点就不太厚道了。。。
我看不到 谁有看到 ?很想 看 等待中~~
it's does not matter. we have one heart, China. let them do what they want. at least they let us hug
屏蔽哪里有哦,我在重庆都看得到
很好,很强大,让世界听听中国真正的声音,让CNN死去吧,不实报道
http://www.youtube.com/user/zhangyileo 在这里 可以 打开
大家留意一下,有可能是youtube屏蔽中国用户, 请专家考证一下
看到3, 有血气的中国人! 在海外更知道中国的伟大!
不知道为什么,youtube 上有时能看,有时又不能. 不过他封j你一个帐号,再申请一个又上.总要让我们的声音被听见.持续地坚持住, 反对偏见!
支持海外学子，B4 BBC！
我也打不開, 用工具下也下不了 - -~ 爲什麽不直接用代碼貼視頻呢
总算看到了，不错，正气
有可能是youtube屏蔽中国用户
Oh what rubbish. I watched a video of the protests on the BBC site this morning which included not only footage of the pro-China demonstrators but an interviews with two of them.
And the BBC website currently has mention of the pro-China protestors on its main page covering the demonstrations, although they were far less numerous and their intervention obviously less spectacular.
Meanwhile, has there been any footage on Chinese television that mentioned any protests at all?
No. The postings attacking the BBC (not that it is by any means perfect) are utter humbug.
Click any video link on the BBC’s main page dealing with the protests today, and look for the title:
Beijing flame’s troubled journey through London (4mins 31 secs)
“Free Tibet, WorldWide Natives retake control”
Thanks for your report, I took the video around 2pm , By the time I got home and started watching BBC LIVE, I didn’t see any of the report that give a over-view of how strong and what scale was the pro-chinese protests. Only till later, I saw a short interview with a chinese girl that conducted in front of our crow, very breif, and can not reflect the truth voice of very chinese protesters.
I guess it still can be regarded as fair play, even though you cover one side story for 10 hours , and the other side for about 5 minutes.
By the way, I did updated my description in that youtube video, to let ppl know BBC did cover our side of the story. Thanks.
There is no need to interview the groups of Chinese welcoming the torch, we all know what opinions they will give in a very robotic manner and tone…and the rest of the world should pay no heed, we all got along well without China, it is just a Pandora’s box.
[...] And before anyone gets excited, it looks like the Downing Street mob was pro, not anti. [...]
Peter,
“Meanwhile, has there been any footage on Chinese television that mentioned any protests at all?”
Yes. The protest was brocasted by the Chinese telivison CCTV.
http://news.cctv.com/world/20080407/100256.shtml
Given the level of distrust of Chinese government owned media, the best PR strategy for the Chinese government is to encourage patriotic bloggers to attempt to stir up the same level of distrust of Western media.
Typical nonsense.
As someone said above, the BBC coverage showed pro-China Chinese students and interviewed them.
Why don’t you Chinese condemn your own media for failing to cover the protests?
We have different expectation for different media. We already know CHinese media is controlled by CCP. So we don’t expect too much. BUT western media always brag about its “fair and balanced” reports.BUt it is NOT true. Let me make a metaphor, The label “lier” is tied on Chinese media’s forehead. Everybody can see it. But the label “lier” is hidden in the bottom of western media. People need to rip off their clothes to see the lier label, namely to debunk those lies.
Eh, counter-protests RARELY get as much attention as protests themselves. I call whining by Anti-CNN.
@RichardLee
Um, are you naive or just dense? I admit I don’t open the China Daily or tune into CCTV every day, but like every news organization they have made claims of fairness and balance like their foreign counterparts. Anyone that works for a news organization is going to state it’s positives, not its negatives. Anti-CNN has made a couple of valid points, but this recent tirade against BBC coverage is just absurd. I’d like to ask you how much coverage is given to people who counter-protest at an anti-Iraq war protest or coverage to people who are FOR the WTO at an anti-WTO protest?
It just shows that Anti-CNN is just criticizing to score points and not to make any cogent argument of bias. Which still helps in adding another perspective, but does not put Anti-CNN into the realm of media arbiter it so wants to be.
Good point, Tom - Daai Tou Laam
Looks like CCTV did show footage of the London protests on the “news” last night, but that hasn’t slowed the meme down any. I just took a quick look around anti-CNN.com’s forum and found these new anti-BBC threads:
http://anti-cnn.com/forum/cn/thread-9950-1-1.html
http://anti-cnn.com/forum/cn/thread-9979-1-1.html
http://anti-cnn.com/forum/cn/thread-9941-1-1.html
http://anti-cnn.com/forum/cn/thread-9730-1-2.html
http://anti-cnn.com/forum/cn/thread-9901-1-3.html
http://anti-cnn.com/forum/cn/thread-9690-1-3.html
http://anti-cnn.com/forum/cn/thread-9726-1-3.html
http://anti-cnn.com/forum/cn/thread-9713-1-5.html
And here’s one of several threads planning retaliation protests for the 2012 summer olympic games. I don’t know how seriously they can be taken, though: http://anti-cnn.com/forum/cn/thread-9857-1-4.html
There’s even a ‘How to talk to “laowai” about Tibet’ thread:
http://anti-cnn.com/forum/cn/thread-6641-1-2.html
But this seems to be more helpful than what’s on anti-CNN.com.
FREE NORTH IRLAND
Free New Calidonia
Translation error:
The last sentence in:
看到3, 有血气的中国人! 在海外更知道中国的伟大!
means: One all the more realizes how great China is when one is abroad.
Rather than your original translation: ‘ Let it be known overseas how Great China is’
But overall you did a good job.
The anti-CNN people make some fair points. CNN coverage consists of glib superficial soundbites that confirm a US and Euro-centric point of view. Having said that, the anti-CNN crowd lose all credibility because they have no better alternative to hold up as a model. CCTV? No one would ever set up an anti-CCTV group because few people watch it and nobody takes it seriously.
Whoops, thanks yinbin, making the changes now.
Other than political points, I can’t see why there are so many hater against anti-cnn site. It’s a biased site aimed to correct factual errors on limited topics. It has never claimed to be fair nor balanced and it’s not always right. However, since the so called “editors” at large west media institutions are too incompetent to correct many of the issues brought up by the anti-cnn site, it only makes sense that such sites should exist and remain popular. The goal of journalism is to report accurate information and allow citizens to make up their own minds. The Chinese media doesn’t do that and its criticized fairly. The same should apply to western media when it gets its facts wrong, or gives unfair coverage in fear of politically correct backlash.
On the other hand, someone already mentioned something about creating anti-xinhua/cctv site. I think that would be definitely beneficial as well. The more of these sites are out there the more accurate news media will become.
the chi-com heart is pure and strong!
Long may it beat with Fire and noodles!
Forward Strike Peasants!!
the Tibet are rascals!!! (and all our Tibet belong to us. Historically fact!)
Dalai Lama a blood dripping baby killing robot and NO ONE is CENSORING these commennts!
………………….aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Did BBC mention a girl carrying the torch was attacked by a man twice her size?
Or just the usual “protest because of China’s human rights record”? What about the little girl’s human rights?
United we stand, One UNITED CHINA, under CHINA Laws, with Chinese dignity and justice for all!
The tibet protest is less than one percent compared to Chinese population (home and abroad.) Chinese take up 1/5 of the world, and Chinese unrest/protest is the one that will shake the world!!!!!
Lakshmi - usa
Suggestion to COUNTER THE United States’ double standards revenge.
China should adopt the U.S. Policy to treat terrorism! Here is how China should copy the double standards played by United States’ governments
-United States stage torture camps around the world outside of the U.S. to torture Al-Quada and other terrorists
-China should set up stage torture camps around the world except china to torture the Dalai Lama’s terrorists, and terrorists invoked by U.S., and most of European countries!!!
- China’s news should cover and biased against the united states’ internal conflict such as minorities and terrorists trying to split up the states.
- When it’s the U.S. olympic games, China and human rights activists should protest and point out all the human rights the United States has violated, such as setting up tortured camps around the world outside of U.S. to torture terrorists.
In a way, thanks to CNN, BBC et al, this is a test of the Chinese patriotism and unity! We prove to win. Especially Chinese overseas have been suppressed by overseas countries to almost forget about our Chinese indentities. This 3/14 incident is just the beginning of Chinese self discovery of our pride Chinese ethnicity! YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Revenge time!
When it’s 2012 Olympics, a group of friends and families and I will travel Los Angeles (US) to London (Britain) to protest against the torch and I will shout for “Free Ireland”
Then I will travel to Beijing to protest against the 2012 torch relay there.
hahhaahahha, it will be fun!
>Did BBC mention a girl carrying the torch was attacked by a man twice her size?
What actually happened, and what the BBC mentioned, can easily be found out by consulting the BBC’s site. There you will find a clip from the original live coverage of the attempt to take the torch from Huk, as well as another long clip of slow-motion close-up of the incident. This is accompanied by an interview with Huk about what happened and how she felt about it.
In short there is no evidence of dishonesty by the BBC and every evidence of dishonesty and bias on behalf of critics such as the one above. Perhaps these clips are not accessible in China?
In passing, Huk said, “My taking part in the procession doesn’t mean I condone China in any way,” and she goes on to sympathise with the man who tried to snatch the torch.
But this is no doubt just further evidence of BBC bias.
http://www.modelminority.com/article259.html
>Did BBC mention a girl carrying the torch was attacked by a man twice her size?
>Or just the usual “protest because of China’s human rights record”? What about the little girl’s human rights?
Just exactly what the BBC mentioned can easily be discovered by anyone wanting to engage in honest debate (unless the relevant links are blocked in China, of course).
The original live footage of an attempt to snatch the torch from a grown woman (who would be offended to hear herself described as a ‘little girl’) can still be seen on the BBC’s web site.
The site also has extended slow-motion close-up coverage (also originally shown on television) of the snatch attempt, along with an interview with Ms. Huk about what happened and how it felt to have the torch nearly snatched from her.
In short a full visual account and verbal account from a participant in the incident are available to those who care to look.
Ms. Huk remarks, by the way, that carrying the torch doesn’t mean she condones China’s human rights record, and she expresses sympathy with the demonstrators and even with the man who tried to snatch the torch.
But no doubt this is further evidence of BBC bias.
Wow, you’r egoing to protest for Ireland? Such radicals!
I’m ashamed to be considered Chinese when I read these comments from my fellow people.
To Peter N-H:
I guess you and Charles Liu were not talking about the same video. I saw the video that Liu mention. It indeed featured a little girl, no more then 15, I think.
Do not judge other countries by your own standard, you seldom know about China or Chinese people!
I don’t know whether you are from Britain. If you are british, how do you feel if you heard some wants to split up the UK? Are you going to join those anti-Britain protesters and happily cries out FREE NORTH IRELAND?
If you apply different standard to different country, you do not have the right to judge others.Just be quiet!
Having peaceful demonstrations against biased western media organisations will not work. The smearing and bashing PR campaigns will not cease. The westerners’ condescending attitude towards the Chinese will not change.
But why is the situation so different with the muslims who are creating problems and demands in the western countries? The muslims are getting almost everything they have demanded and are demanding. The USA/European countries continue to appease them, have facilities built in universities and airports to accommodate their religious rituals. They even surrender their precious little human right of speech (prophet’s cartoons, Wilders Fitna video). And they dare not even associate the word ‘Islam’ to those bombings and terrorist acts committed by the jihadists. Two factors stand out: 1) Muslims are adept at using the westerners’ laws against them; 2) They are prone to use violence to get their demands through. They target the media organizations and the journalists that dare to insinuate them.
If the Chinese want to see less humiliations from these foreigners, they got to learn from the jihadists.
Dear Therese, I think you did not get the true meaning of your fellow people, they did not plan to protest for Ireland, and they will not. Everyone can see those comments are just kind of irony, your fellow people just want to remind those foreigners: do not judge the same thing by different standards. Britain don’t want to be split up , so do China. If you are a Chinese, you should remember, Tibet belongs to China,and we won’t allow anyone to change this fact.
Congratulations to the protesters for a fine jop.
So embarassing to Facist China. Excellent !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was browsing anti-cnn.com for the first time and then I got here somehow. ^_^ and following the directions I checked to the bbc.co.uk and there I saw the videos. for an ordinary english learner like myself it is rather difficult to understand all of the live comments in the voiceover. however, the big picture is clean and clear: what a lleh of a party! heihei! torch bearers, police and policewomen, flags of different colors, shouts of senseless slogans, and a fire distinguisher haha. it will not put out the torch flame like that ok not even with water pour right on top of it. you had gotten to be more creative than that if you were so truely determined for it. a girl wearing a funny costume(may be a grown women who knows, she might as well just feel offended to be thought as younger) was interviewed and said that she thought the issue was more important than politcs and sports… o(∩_∩)o… you know what? it made me feel like she really thought she was there to solve some problems. instead of having fun.
then another girl was interviewed to have said something i cant quite follow but she certainly has a way with the camera and it was simple and obvious that she felt denied her passion and love of her country. dont worry baby, the party has yet to begin.
China is proud of you, your happiness is everything to her. bbc thinks you dont deserve it, well, they will be well taken care of and you dont have to give it a s***.
bbc is an orgnisation that has its very own political purposes and appeals, its own perspective and orientation, and its own political positions and interests. bias is not the right word for it. I never expected bbc to express our opinions fully completely, it doesnt serve its purpose. bbc thinks it can baffle ppl with its silly old tricks, and disapprove other ppl’s efforts, and play the common opinions around. one doesnt even have to have an eye to see the fact that bbc is not what it wants itself to look like.
bbc never shows how welcomed the torch relays were and will be in most countries. when it uses the word worldwide it doesnt always mean it, it does not include two thirds of the countries and ppl exist on the earth. bbc says it speaks of the truth but the truth is it only speaks of what it hoped to be true. bbc’s got style man, when it comes to the so called “violence in tibet” issue its strategy is this: if it’s not completely full of s***, it is a great dish. it should be well cooked and served. maybe this is bias, but could u prove the otherwise that if i was wrong.
I leaned this new english word “condone” from watching the video, lol. I know the word condamn, and the word forgive, and excuse, but id never learned “condone” before now. it’s a nice word isnt it. appreciated. although it doesnt mean i condone bbc, I start to think may be it’s the fastest way to better my english. I studied 3 foreign languages, english is my weakest one. I like harry potter, and mr. beans, and I like the english premier league, and I definitely agree with the idea of free international trade, but that does not mean I condone the britain for starting the opium war and its centry long robbery act throughout the world. I certainly dont condone bbcs for their deliberately fabricating and distorting story tellings.
China is hosting the Olympic Games for all mankind, not just someone with some particular political opinions or ideologies or religious beliefs. it is a great sport event where anything is possible, and you can meet and compete with ppl from all over the world, poor or rich, dark skined or light skined, tall or short, gay or straight, bold or hairy, if you believe you are good enough you practiced hard you have a chance to win all the pride and glory. and remark my words we will not try to boycott or refuse to participate the olympic game in the future wherever it’s going to be held, in London or even again in Japan. I just dont think we Chinese are that boring and ret-ar-ded. So this yr’s Olympic Games as a third world country, for the first time in the history, China, which is going to be hosting it, it is doomed to be the greatest and one most extraordinary game of all time. nothing you can do to stop us from being proud of our own country. sorry. but it’s not an apology.
I hope Ive made myself clear lol@my troubled english writings.
I was browsing anti-cnn.com for the first time and then I got here somehow. ^_^ and
following the directions I checked to the bbc.co.uk and there I saw the videos. for an
ordinary english learner like myself it is rather difficult to understand all of the live
comments in the voiceover. however, the big picture is clean and clear: what a lleh of a
party! heihei! torch bearers, police and policewomen, flags of different colors, shouts of
senseless slogans, and a fire distinguisher haha. it will not put out the torch flame like
that ok not even with water pour right on top of it. you had gotten to be more creative
than that if you were so truely determined for it. a girl wearing a funny costume(may be
a grown women who knows, she might as well just feel offended to be thought as younger)
was interviewed and said that she thought the issue was more important than politcs and
sports… o(∩_∩)o… you know what? it made me feel like she really thought she was
there to solve some problems. instead of having fun.
then another girl was interviewed to have said something i cant quite follow but she
certainly has a way with the camera and it was simple and obvious that she felt denied her
passion and love of her country. dont worry baby, the party has yet to begin.
China is proud of you, your happiness is everything to her. bbc thinks you dont deserve
it, well, they will be well taken care of and you dont have to give it a s***.
bbc is an orgnisation that has its very own political purposes and appeals, its own
perspective and orientation, and its own political positions and interests. bias is not
the right word for it. I never expected bbc to express our opinions fully completely, it
doesnt serve its purpose. bbc thinks it can baffle ppl with its silly old tricks, and
disapprove other ppl’s efforts, and play the common opinions around. one doesnt even have
to have an eye to see the fact that bbc is not what it wants itself to look like.
bbc never shows how welcomed the torch relays were and will be in most countries. when it
uses the word worldwide it doesnt always mean it, it does not include two thirds of the
countries and ppl exist on the earth. bbc says it speaks of the truth but the truth is it
only speaks of what it hoped to be true. bbc’s got style man, when it comes to the so
called “violence in tibet” issue its strategy is this: if it’s not completely full of
s***, it is a great dish. it should be well cooked and served. maybe this is bias, but
could u prove the otherwise that if i was wrong.
I leaned this new english word “condone” from watching the video, lol. I know the word
condamn, and the word forgive, and excuse, but id never learned “condone” before now. it’s
a nice word isnt it. appreciated. although it doesnt mean i condone bbc, I start to think
may be it’s the fastest way to better my english. I studied 3 foreign languages, english
is my weakest one. I like harry potter, and mr. beans, and I like the english premier
league, and I definitely agree with the idea of free international trade, but that does
not mean I condone the britain for starting the opium war and its centry long robbery act
throughout the world. I certainly dont condone bbcs for their deliberately fabricating and
distorting story tellings.
China is hosting the Olympic Games for all mankind, not just someone with some particular
political opinions or ideologies or religious beliefs. it is a great sport event where
anything is possible, and you can meet and compete with ppl from all over the world, poor
or rich, dark skined or light skined, tall or short, gay or straight, bold or hairy, if
you believe you are good enough you practiced hard you have a chance to win all the pride
and glory. and remark my words we will not try to boycott or refuse to participate the
olympic game in the future wherever it’s going to be held, in London or even again in
Japan. I just dont think we Chinese are that boring and ret-ar-ded. So this yr’s Olympic
Games as a third world country, for the first time in the history, China, which is going
to be hosting it, it is doomed to be the greatest and one most extraordinary game of all
time. nothing you can do to stop us from being proud of our own country. sorry. but it’s
not an apology.
I hope Ive made myself clear lol@my troubled english writings.
i don’t understand why the chinese government wanted to have the dirt olymics in beijing. if the world doesn’t want the chinese people to host it, beijing should not be given the chance in the first place. Look how big the people of china is losing their faces. damn the olymipcs. after all, it is just a glimpse of idea from the french. we can live without. just leave the chinese people alone. as a beijinger, i don’t welcome anybody to come for the dirty show.
if the editor has any guts, just show my message to the world. not everybody in china is so crazy about this ugly western fantasy.
(1) If you actually READ the articles in the West, they do mention counter protests, but as others have mentioned, they rarely get as much attention (Pro-World Bank, etc).
(2) I agree that MORE time should be spent showing both sides of the argument.
(3) The problem with comparing Northern Ireland to Tibet is that the majority of the people in Northern Ireland (protestants) WANTED the British there. Crack a book before blindly commenting on the topic. Tibet on the other hand was self ruled by Tibetans… then forcefully invaded. Since then, the Chinese have flooded the area to essentially wash out the Tibetan culture. If the Chinese actually WANTED to unify, they would embrace the Tibetan language and culture… but they don’t.
Besides, many people don’t want Tibet carved away from China, they want Tibet to be autonomous (i.e. part of China but ruled by Tibetans).
I also find it funny that Taiwan doesn’t want to be a part of China either … and the only reason independence has not been declared there is because of China’s threat of violence. No wonder considering China’s allies… Russia, DPRK, Sudan, Burma … all brutal, violent, oppressive regimes.
No one is saying the West is perfect, nor are they denouncing the Chinese people (the West has millions of Chinese immigrants). There are everyday struggles to change things in all of our countries. However, some governments (like the PRC) are a little worse than others.
PV wrote: “If you actually READ the articles in the West, they do mention counter protests, but as others have mentioned, they rarely get as much attention (Pro-World Bank, etc).”
When I typed “Pro-Chinese Protest” on google news I got back one article from an small Canadian news paper about a protest of a few hundred people in a pro-China protest in Canada. Typing “Pro Chinese protest London” will yield one article on this topic from France24, another little known media outlet. The rest of the articles were dedicated to pro-Tibet articles. I checked NYTimes, BostonGlobe, Wall Street Journal, WashingtonPost, and USAToday for their coverage today. These papers represent most of the newspaper circulation in the US. Wall Street Journal spent about 2 sentences on pro-China protests in Paris. NYTime’s coverage of the pro-China protest is actually a one sentence set up to give out the view of a pro-Tibetan protester (”One of the protesters who sparred verbally with pro-China groups in Trafalgar Square was David Phillips”). Wapo mentioned “large groups of flag-waving pro-China supporters” in one sentence but did not elaborate. USAToday and BostonGlobe did not mention anything about Chinese protesters.
“Tibet on the other hand was self ruled by Tibetans… then forcefully invaded. Since then, the Chinese have flooded the area to essentially wash out the Tibetan culture. If the Chinese actually WANTED to unify, they would embrace the Tibetan language and culture… but they don’t.”
These statements are rather ignorant for someone with access search engines and basic logic. One, just why would China want to unify with Tibet if the entire world body has already recognized Tibet as part of China? That doesn’t make any sense unless you still believe that Tibet is independent, which makes you delusional. Tibet’s fate was sealed the moment CIA and other Western forces gave arms and trained the ethnic Tibetans and convinced Dalai Lama, who at the time actually admired Mao, that he should instigate an armed coup. As with any armed conflict throughout history, the losers have to pay and the Tibetans paid it with their land.
Two, you can’t simply “washout” any culture unless the people want to changes themselves. It’s easy to argue that the very people who are “washing out” Tibetan cultures are none other than Tibetans themselves. During the cultural revolution, it was mostly the Tibetan Red Guards who killed their own kind and burned down the temples. Fast forward to today, no one forced the young Tibetans to give up their spiritual training for Karoke bars and brothels, just as no one forced Tibetans NOT to start their own businesses so that ethnic Tibetans who cannot speak Mandarin can be better employed. Unlike some make belief fairy land, it actually cost a lot of money to maintain cultures.
Lastly, there is no concrete evidence whatsoever of “Hans flooding Tibet”. The pro-Tibetan movement claimed that Han population today exceeds that of the Tibetans in Tibet, but the Chinese census put Hans at less than 7% of the total population in the region. Even if you disregard the Chinese census as biased, there is still no way the pro-Tibetan movement has the logistics nor the capacity to carry out accurate accounting of population statistics.
dear pv:
I’m not familiar with the northern ireland issue, I only recall that there’s decades of bloody struggles and british never gave up its rule over the place. and the majority of the people in northern ireland(protestants) are all english immigrants. why dont they all convert to cathelic? or go back to england? either way the problem is solved right?
if military might isnt everything at least it does something right? because of the russian military might and the weakness of old china mongolia was seperated from china. on the other hand, tibet is neigboring to india which was also weak at the time and further weakened by british rule, so it is still inside the motherland. japan thinks that the mainland china has better to be divided into 7 parts. i’m sure people like you would like the idea without wanting to know the details.
today in tibet the mojority of the tibetan people(former serfs which was 95% of the tibetan population) recognise themselves as chinese nationals and they approve their autonomous administration. china is a developing country, it certainly has problems. but it is also the fastest changing country in the world.
if you wouldnt want to come and see for yourself, at least try to have some crash course off hand. the education you had in bbc–british brainwash centre does not qualify you for a descent debate.
last but not least. can you give one example of any government that says it will never use force in solving sovereignty issues like border dispute or abruption and if someone wants to declare independence on their residing zones just let it be?
Hey John, did the likes of CNN, NBC, BBC show the footage of the girl in wheelchair being attacked by a Paris protester twice her size (and two good legs)?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rEsqCUlNcE
@Charles Liu: I don’t know.
Haven’t you guys heared that a protester in London yeild：”FREE JAPAN!!”.
He surely didin’t read the script carefully.
:P
I just read it on another website,and I don’t have any evidence to prove it.If you don’t believe it,all right, just 4 fun~
:)
Sorry for my spelling mistake
:p
English is hard to learn…..
I meant yelled……
My two cents on why Dalai Lama is well regarded in the Western world. On one hand, he has a gargantuan PR machinery courtesy of the CIA of the United States of America.
A more important reason however, is that there have always existed palpable anti-China sentiments in the West. This is pointed out by Michael Parenti, a renowned expert on Tibet who in an interview published on YouTube says this: “…Dalai Lama was made into a hero because it was the Chinese communists who kind of unseated him. So he is seen as somebody to be much admired…”
Therefore Dalai Lala (and what he represents) is regarded by the West as the “enemy’s enemy”.
One need to understand the political under-currents in today’s Western world in order to understand the pro-Tibet independence discourse so prevalent in the West.
The link to that Youtube clip is as follows:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWGGjpJJCKE
John, you don’t know, or you don’t want to know?
I did a quick scan of Google news:
http://news.google.com/news?q=Olympics+Paris
Guess what, your usual “protester disrupt… Tibet… Human Rights…”.
The only mention of this was from an obscure source, and it accused the Chinese of using a cripple for “instant propaganda”.
Welcom to China!
Please see our beautiful country in your own eyes.
I’m not taking part in your manhunt, Charles. I thought I already made it clear that I don’t to see emotion and fervor override communication. That said, I think it’s silly to try and hold me responsible for decisions Western news media make. If you feel so strongly about what happened to that girl, why don’t you go track her down and asked why she willingly put herself in that position in the first place. Or better yet, why don’t you ask the Paris organizers why they knowingly fed her to the wolves.
As for CNN, NBC and BBC, I really don’t know, all three of those aren’t allowed into China. Even if they were, they wouldn’t be how I would go about getting my news. Google News is much closer. I clicked on your link, what’s the first thing I see? This:
China doctors the news of Olympic torch relay
San Francisco Chronicle, USA - 59 minutes ago
“It’s just bad, bad, bad,” retired army officer Wang Guanghai said of pro-Tibetan demonstrations that marred the torch relay in London and Paris
Please don’t forget to direct your questions to other participants in the discussion on this thread, it’s not my platform by default, after all.
FYI, I recently blogged several new posts concerning the question of Western media bias, in which I address bloggers’ claims that Western news media bias is largely to blame for the rising tide of Chinese nationalism.
http://jotman.blogspot.com
I recently blogged several new posts concerning new claims that Western news media bias is to blame for the rising tide of Chinese nationalism.
http://jotman.com
Tim,
I was so happy to see a British police on a bike kicking one of the protesters!!!!!!!!!!! I had a moment there!
Tim, I had a great moment when I saw a British police on bike kicking one of the protesters. It was GREAT to watch!
For those ignorant ones, the head of Tibet’s autonous region is Tibetan. He condemns Dalai! DL is a Faction/Terrorist group, he certainly is NOT represented by the Tibetan population! Dalai is a disgrace to the Buddhist community in the world!
Not only you will not see the Chinese protest in London often on BBC, you will not see when they are in Paris and San Francisco. Good Morning America started this morning by predicting a bad day for the torch and showed one side of the story only.
I do not understand, in a Democracy, can people have different opinion about the same issue? Isn’t it suppose to be the symbol of democracy that, we agree to disagree?
Why portrait the Tibetan protest as a mainstream western thing, which it is not: why portrait peace loving well wishers (chinese or not) as Chinese government’s puppet, which they are not either.
The cold war was all about western’s misunderstanding of the East. If the western media does not take responsibility to report the truth, the new century misunderstanding of the East, especially, China, will have chilling effect on the international community.
China is not a threat, it is our partner in the so called “War on Terror”. The West is targeting the wrong target again. Just because the Islamic extremist has no ountry attached to it, does not make them less threatening than China/Chinese.
I do not see the threat from China except for the enviroment, that’s something we need to protest against.
Human rights, what is it? In 2003, United Nation had stopped all food aid shipments to China, the Chinese is feeding themselves, 1.3 billion of them on their own for the first time in history. Chinese government provides mandatary education up to 9th grade.
Compare to China, the largest democracy on earth, India has a staggering poverty rate, 70% of Bombay population living in huts and without running water. Adult literacy rate is so low, not many people understand the press and read newspaper. So does India have a better human right record than China, when it can not provide food and shielter for its people, only right to vote?
Russia, people do not like Putin since he is heavy handed! I remeber Russia in the 1990th from the western press here. It was so bad, nobody knows the future of Russia at that time. People were saying that China was on the right track to reform the economy first than political system in the 1990th.
Frankly speaking, China is on the right track, China will rise, whether we in the west like it or not! We need to deal with it! By bad mouthing China, it is only going to increase the misunderstanding and mistrust. Grassroot Chinese Nationalism (see anti-cnn.com) is more dangerious than its bureaucratic government.
We are in a democracy, and we need to participate so all of our money grabbing corporations and polititians can not fool us, not the press wither…
Pro-China Protest in Toronto
by alfred ng | March 29, 2008 at 05:36 pm | 2066 views | 14 comments
Pro-China Protest in Toronto
by alfred ng
updated 1 wk ago | 364 views
Pro-China Protest in Toronto
by alfred ng
updated 1 wk ago | 310 views
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This afternoon an unusual protest took placed in Toronto’s Dundas Square, among the shopping mall “Eaton Center” and the Ryerson University in downtown Toronto.
On this sunny Saturday afternoon were full of shoppers and students from the near-by Ryerson University.
Unusual in many ways because it was to support China for what’s happening in Tibet, also unusual because Chinese Canadian are not known for public demonstration to support the country they left for freedom. Unlike other protests such as in 1989 when Chinese Canadian were to protest the Tiananmen Square Massacre when Chinese protesters were killed by the Chinese Army in Tiananmen Square.
There were perhaps two hundred mainly Mandarin speaking young Chinese shouting “one China” and the truth on Tibet with some holding Chinese and Canadian flags on a the sunny afternoon. Across the street outside the Eaton Center there was a small counter protest to support Tibet. With the heavy police present, other than the occasion shouting match it was a peaceful protest on both side.
While reading the NYT forums, I saw this gem which nicely sums up the treatment of China by the oh-so-accurate Western media and oh-so-enlightened Western folks. It’s written by some History Prof (lch) in the US.
—————————
When the Chinese did not want to open its internal markets as much as the Euro-American traders wanted in the 18th and early 19th centuries, the Chinese Government and people were condemned as being “anti-social” and thus barbarian. The Chinese efforts to fight the opium smugglers – which were mostly Anglo-American traders – were returned by a military invasion in the name of “free trade,” “justice under international law,” and protection of the rights to “property” of Westerners. Thus came the Opium Wars (1839-42). All the subsequent Western encroachment on Chinese legal, economic, and territorial sovereignty and independence for the next century were part and parcel of the “civilizing mission” which according to the apologetic historians like John Fairbank was to “modernize” China along the model of the Western “civilized” institutions and practices. The “civilizing mission” of course would later include Western humanitarian efforts, this time, to help the addicted Chinese opium smokers to quit smoking. According to this line of historiography, China was not only on the wrong side of history but also should be grateful for its being civilized (even reluctantly) by Western empires.
When China was taken over by the “Communist” forces modeled after the Western-originated ideas of Communism and the Soviet Union, however, China was on the wrong side of history again, as the Cold War tensions and conflicts finally witnessed the Soviet Union no longer on the scene. As the only “Communist” power, China once again bore the brunt of Western condemnation, now as the “Red Dynasty,” the only Despotism that dared to stand up to Western capitalist hegemony and political domination. The people in the “Red” China have been condemned as if Communism was something inherent to and ingrained in the Chinese skin color and culture. Of course, Marx, Hitler, Stalin were long gone, or buried in Western consciousness, at least for 21st-century Western journalists and commentators.
When the Chinese finally learned to “modernize” themselves by imitating the Western capitalist economy and “free trade,” and when they are finally able to open up the Western markets with cheap goods, the Chinese this time are condemned as engaging in “unfair competition,” “manipulating currency,” and “sweatshop manufacturing.” Of course, the “Communist” or “barbarian” or “brainwashed Chinese” should never be entitled to say anything about the sacred (Western) right to “free trade” that has been talked since the early 19th century. Never mind that the “sweatshops” are mostly operated by and/or for Western companies.
When the Chinese want to “modernize” the Tibetans as the British have done the peoples in India, Hong Kong, Singapore, and Ireland, or the Americans have done (away with?) the native Indians, Hawaiians or Mexicans in Texas/NM, they are charged, I think rightly, with “cultural genocide.” This is a plainly stupid thing to do when those in the West have already started to fetish the rights of the ethnic groups to cultural preservation and independence. In North America, too few indigenous have been left alive to make a scene like the Tibetans did recently; the Britons have quashed the Irish “peaceful protesters” and accessed its territory too successfully to allow an exile government to jeopardize its 2012 Olympics Games; and the Germans have done a “fabulous job” in driving the Jews to the concentration camps or to Jerusalem. Even the abysmal Iraqi situation has been accepted as a showcase of U.S. promotion of civilization, rule of law, and democracy, even at the expense of the 140,000 human lives (of course, of the Iraqis). The Chinese Government simply has to admit that it was once again too late to catch up with the tide of (Western) civilization.
While reading the NYT forums, I came across this gem. This was written by a history prof in the US (lch) and it sums up the treatment of China by the West quite nicely.
——————————
When the Chinese did not want to open its internal markets as much as the Euro-American traders wanted in the 18th and early 19th centuries, the Chinese Government and people were condemned as being “anti-social” and thus barbarian. The Chinese efforts to fight the opium smugglers – which were mostly Anglo-American traders – were returned by a military invasion in the name of “free trade,” “justice under international law,” and protection of the rights to “property” of Westerners. Thus came the Opium Wars (1839-42). All the subsequent Western encroachment on Chinese legal, economic, and territorial sovereignty and independence for the next century were part and parcel of the “civilizing mission” which according to the apologetic historians like John Fairbank was to “modernize” China along the model of the Western “civilized” institutions and practices. The “civilizing mission” of course would later include Western humanitarian efforts, this time, to help the addicted Chinese opium smokers to quit smoking. According to this line of historiography, China was not only on the wrong side of history but also should be grateful for its being civilized (even reluctantly) by Western empires.
When China was taken over by the “Communist” forces modeled after the Western-originated ideas of Communism and the Soviet Union, however, China was on the wrong side of history again, as the Cold War tensions and conflicts finally witnessed the Soviet Union no longer on the scene. As the only “Communist” power, China once again bore the brunt of Western condemnation, now as the “Red Dynasty,” the only Despotism that dared to stand up to Western capitalist hegemony and political domination. The people in the “Red” China have been condemned as if Communism was something inherent to and ingrained in the Chinese skin color and culture. Of course, Marx, Hitler, Stalin were long gone, or buried in Western consciousness, at least for 21st-century Western journalists and commentators.
When the Chinese finally learned to “modernize” themselves by imitating the Western capitalist economy and “free trade,” and when they are finally able to open up the Western markets with cheap goods, the Chinese this time are condemned as engaging in “unfair competition,” “manipulating currency,” and “sweatshop manufacturing.” Of course, the “Communist” or “barbarian” or “brainwashed Chinese” should never be entitled to say anything about the sacred (Western) right to “free trade” that has been talked since the early 19th century. Never mind that the “sweatshops” are mostly operated by and/or for Western companies.
When the Chinese want to “modernize” the Tibetans as the British have done the peoples in India, Hong Kong, Singapore, and Ireland, or the Americans have done (away with?) the native Indians, Hawaiians or Mexicans in Texas/NM, they are charged, I think rightly, with “cultural genocide.” This is a plainly stupid thing to do when those in the West have already started to fetish the rights of the ethnic groups to cultural preservation and independence. In North America, too few indigenous have been left alive to make a scene like the Tibetans did recently; the Britons have quashed the Irish “peaceful protesters” and accessed its territory too successfully to allow an exile government to jeopardize its 2012 Olympics Games; and the Germans have done a “fabulous job” in driving the Jews to the concentration camps or to Jerusalem. Even the abysmal Iraqi situation has been accepted as a showcase of U.S. promotion of civilization, rule of law, and democracy, even at the expense of the 140,000 human lives (of course, of the Iraqis). The Chinese Government simply has to admit that it was once again too late to catch up with the tide of (Western) civilization.
Hi John,
here is a letter written by a mainland Tibetan to the Free Tibet overseas. wonder if you’d be interested in translating it into English. A real desent voice. (http://mil.tiexue.net/content_408424.html).
ur chinese friend … funny name since you resorted to name calling in your post. Why am I not surprised? (roll eyes).
(1) First off, you should try to think before replying as you flame me yet support my first comment in your rebuttal. The pro-chinese response is in fact, MENTIONED, albeit minimally. Hence my second point “I agree that MORE time should be spent showing both sides of the argument.” Try to control your anger next time and connect the dots.
(2) Second, I know I am “ignorant” and “delusional” but what would that make you … insisting that China did not forcefully invade Tibet? That Tibet did not govern itself? What exactly happened there in 1949-50 anyway?
In fact… the PLA “exterminated” more than 5,700 Tibetan “soldiers”, and imprisoned more than 2,000 in different areas of eastern Tibet between 7 and 25 October, 1950. [A Survey of Tibet Autonomous Region, Tibet People's Publishing House, 1984]
I know, this isn’t coming from the PRC, but try to swallow the bitter pill for a second… CHINA INVADED TIBET. Forcefully. The resistance put up by the Tibetan army, though futile, was Tibetan saying “stay out.” It is true, some Tibetans were swayed by the communist propaganda, but attempting to blame the ethnic cleansing on them proves that you are just spouting off what your sole news source is telling you.
Oh, and the CIA didn’t enter Tibet until after the occupation occurred… again, read something other than the official PRC text book on Tibet. I agree, the Dalai Lama is a very reasonable person and will meet with the leaders of the occupying force, but to make a connection of admiration is a bit of a stretch.
(3) Recognition: The International Commission of Jurists’ Legal Enquiry Committee on Tibet reported in its study on Tibet’s legal status:
Tibet demonstrated from 1913 to 1950 the conditions of statehood as generally accepted under international law. In 1950, there was a people and a territory, and a government which functioned in that territory, conducting its own domestic affairs free from any outside authority. From 1913-1950, foreign relations of Tibet were conducted exclusively by the Government of Tibet, and countries with whom Tibet had foreign relations are shown by official documents to have treated Tibet in practice as an independent State.
[Tibet and Chinese People's Republic, Geneva, 1960, pp. 5,6]
(4) Cultural Wash Out. Let me get this straight… [a] You’re blaming the Tibetans for the fact that the Chinese outnumber the Tibetans in their home land? [b] You’re blaming the Tibetans that the Tibetan language is not taught in schools in their home land? [c] You’re blaming the Tibetans that they are not allowed to possess their own flag? [d] You’re blaming the Tibetans that they are not allowed to own a photo of the Dalai Lama? [f] You’re blaming the Tibetans that the PRC has taken the Panchen Lama in “custody” for his own safety? [g] You’re blaming the Tibetans for the destruction of portion of land they consider sacred?
Funny… the next thing you’re going to tell me is that the holocaust didn’t happen. That there was no way for 6 million Jews to be executed.
Sigh … there really is no point debating on the internet because inevitably, you cannot convince people who long ago made up their mind about something; ignoring even the most glaring facts and world views.
As I posted the first time, all countries have their problems; China just has more glaring one’s than others. The Dalai Lama calls for talks and hears nothing. The Dalai Lama calls for autonomy, not independence, and hears nothing. The Panchen Lama has been kidnapped, and nothing. Sad.
Every peace loving, respect for freedom, and dignified society with democratic values will oppose China, its people and anti-cnn web site creator.
As these Chinese love to enslave communities , like one in Tibet, threaten neighbours like Taiwan and India over disputed land they claim thier own.
Support tyrinnical govts in Burma, Sudan.
Trade nuclear technology blue prints with rogue states like Iran for money.
And we in civilized world, makes the blunder of awarding such country with Olympics.
Chinese in general are resentful, mean and selfish society.
I hope law of bad Karma punishes this country and breaks it into different small countries, the same fate U.S.S.R met in early nineties.
Regarding comment number 55:
Bigotry is one ugly thing up close when one reads this venemous post.
Ashi, nearly all other old civilizations have declined except China, an old civilization renewed itself and prosper, rising up to a world power. despite its many problems, many ups and downs, and many enemies around world, China is blessed. if your hatred of China is due to some bitter personal experience it is understandable, as there are bad apples in any race or any country. still a tree is not a forest. there are different Chinese and different government policies. try to be fair minded and see things in historical perspectives and go beyond your personal experience. bigotry and hatred eat one’s soul and blind you completely.
an old tibetan man charged separatists in San Francisco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJGoE5qaKrE
real tibetan speaks out.
Serious question, now who’s going to un-convince the Chinese that westerner are all racist, arrogant and self-righteous hypocrites?
I disagree the following statement:
me, in China we can see a lot of picture and report regarding the protest, even the 80 grandmother knows this and angry
>>
April 7th, 2008 at 3:17 am HKSojourner:
Typical nonsense.
As someone said above, the BBC coverage showed pro-China Chinese students and interviewed them.
Why don’t you Chinese condemn your own media for failing to cover the protests?
Dalai is the head of the terrorist, CIS is the boss of Dalai under the table.
Clear picture.
http://vhead.blog.sina.com.cn/player/outer_player.swf?auto=1&vid=11852278&uid=1254594174
re: “cal9i: I’m not familiar with the northern ireland issue, I only recall that there’s decades of bloody struggles and british never gave up its rule over the place. and the majority of the people in northern ireland(protestants) are all english immigrants. why dont they all convert to cathelic? or go back to england? either way the problem is solved right?”
- If you aren’t familiar with the NI issue maybe you shouldn’t cite it as an example? Commenting on issues without fully understanding the background is a common criticism from Chinese to foreigners who critisise China (which is fair and right), but the rules work both ways.
FYI - The majority of NI protestants are either from the irish Republic (having moved there after Irish independence) or from Western Scotland. From the start of the violent ‘troubles’ in NI (late 1960’s) to the IRA ceasefire and power sharing agreement of the early 2000’s a majority of NI population wished to remain part of the UK (evidence being the persistant re-election of pro-Union members of parliament in NI). People in the mainland were on the other hand, generally quite ambivalent about the issue.
With regard to the religious concersion claim, well the conflict in NI was always more of a clash of rival working class cultures rather than a specific religious dispute. In this respect ‘converting’ to catholicism would prbably not solve the problem, quite aside from the patronising impications of it.
To the other poster who sugested he would come over in 2012 and shout ‘Free Northern Ireland’ (although i would wage my next months salary that that particular cyber warrier will do no such thing) you are very welcome to come and do so! protesting is allowed here and plenty of chinese students in the UK seem to be getting the hang of it and enjoying exercising that particular democratic right.
However as the Nothern Irish now largely have self detirmination and their own elected parliament as a result of the good Friday accord I fear you have ‘missed the boat’ on that one.
The one thing that you can conclude from the NI experience that is applicable to TBT / China / The west is that the main breakthrough was achieved throguth the courage of the different groups leaderships and their ability to talk through there difference (i.e without reverting to name calling). This perhaps is a model both the CCP local cadres in tobet and the local tibetan population should be doing.
HKSojourner: Are you trying to find an excuse for CNN, BBC and other mainstream west media’s lack of coverage (or no coverage of) pro-Beijing olympic demonstrators? In San Francisco, Chinese supporters completely outnumbered those anti-chinese groups, but we didn’t see this on mainstream media. At the spot, we saw those journalists who tried SO HARD to catch anti-chinese groups’ pictures while totally ignoring a much much larger chinese supportors crowd. It was really a shame to the journalism as a profession. Dalai Lama and his overseas anti-china radical group always act like victims, but they are not! During San Francisco’s torch ralay, all Chinese supporters were ordinary people without any kind of financial funding. They used their own transportation, bought their own meals, took a day off from their busy jobs, donated their limited money for needed organizing work, and delivered their support for Beijing olympic in a civilized manne, and demonstrated a wonderful Olympic spirit. On the other hand, the anti-chinese side had 4 helicopers, impressive financial support from many anti-chinese special interest groups and first-hand information on where the torch relay route would be going! In the future, this ugly drama before the olympic will be looked at as a mean-spirited, racist, vicious, and very very low performance by a few wet nations, dirty special interest groups in these nations, and their equally shameful media.
@zhang xu,
“Why don’t you Chinese condemn your own media for failing to cover the protests?”
Though Chinese media didn’t show the protests, but they did mention about the protests and they DID NOT distort the news with false images.
“Poncho:“Free Tibet, WorldWide Natives retake control””
Oh PLEASE… according to what poncho said, I think Indian Americans should retake control over America then, yes?
It’s funny how not “very very long” ago, westerners came to North America and claim it as theirs. Later also, Native Americans were genocide by you know who. Tibet has been part of China since 700 years ago, which let me see.. it’s longer than the history of the western civilization in North America. Please let the Indians retake control as well if you wanna free Tibet. Bunch of Hypocrites.
You guys always talks about how lacking is human right in China, but well, 95% of the Chinese people actually wants the olympics. You guys are using Olympics event as a political act and not giving the actual Chinese people what they want or a fair treatment. So human rights? Don’t make me laugh. Now they finally have the rights to host the Olympics and be benefited by it economically and the communication with the other culture from different geographic locations in this god damn world. Now what you guys do, yea you shit on it. Yes China will never be strong and never should because why? Because no body allows. They manufacture your products, and you don’t wanna pay an extra penny for better quality so that you can make more profit that way (according to the companies I worked at in the U.S.), so what you get? Deficient Products. Ok, so everything is the Chinese fault while they don’t even get enough money to produce the products anyway. But still it’s the Chinese fault because when every Chinese thing goes wrong, all you can hear on the new is China, Chinese, blah blah blah, poisoned our kids, blah blah blah, no human rights, blah blah blah. Yes the government’s semi-dictatorship is bad, but communism wasn’t born evil, at least the idea is not. Please you guys are brain washed, doesn’t mean everyone listen to you. I can also say capitalism is wrong as well, but you guys don’t use your brain.
My “you guys” refer to people who follows the media and its messages blindly and make them as their own opinions of every single world affair. But the truth is, you don’t have an opinion or tell me, what the hell is with China? Have you lived there?
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Olympic-Torch-Relay-San-Francisco2C-California-Olympic-Torch-relay/ss/events/sp/040708olympictorch/s:/nm/20080409/sp_nm/olympics_torch_usa_dc_16#photoViewer=/080410/483/efc670f9832543d88e537d36b0cb8ac8
See this self-claimed white activist is a RACIST to the Chinese supporting the Torch Relay!
Even poor one-legged Jing Jing didn’t escape Western media’s bias.
Here, Sky News showed the “after” photo of Jin Jin smugly rolling by Tibet protester pinned to the ground, but neglected to show the “before” photo of an able-bodied man attacking a crippled girl half his size:
http://www.anti-cnn.com/jinjing/paris_protesters_took_advantage.dwt
Kudos to Anti-CNN for giving poor Jing Jing a little justice.
Here is one of the few pictures from the US media which actually shows the face of a Pro-China protester. I find this picture to be rather funny. It sums ip the situation quite nicely. In my opinion, someone clearly missed his medications yesterday.
for the picture: http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-04/37680016.jpg
the article:
http://travel.latimes.com/daily-deal-blog/?p=1674
RJ Wells
I have to side with Frank. It’s true in the West, protests are a
constitutionally guaranteed right. But physical violences, and publicity in the
media are not.
Both take reticent approvals or even encouragements from officials and the
media. One example was one day ahead of San Francisco relay, a group put banners
on the Golden bridge. One woman from the group, who was arrested later, said of
the policemen were very sympathetic to what they were doing, and of course they
were detained but released them rather quickly.
To allow physical violences to occur not once during the relay, but multiple
times, was a sign of either incompetence, or reticent approvals at certain
levels (e.g. police level or even much higher)
Protests can not be “prevented”, but physical violences are preventable. They
occurred for a reason.
In terms of media coverage, while Chinese own coverage has always been censored,
the Western media is really egregious this time. Not only the large Olympics
support protests were not covered, neither was the physical violence against
the runners. Then there was this inuendo the relay was really started by Hitler
[a fine example of slick marketing, never telling a lie directly]. Same goes
with the Tibet riot reporting. Economist Magazine had the only western
journalist in Lhasa at the time. His report was very impartial, which won
Chinese government’s praise - and he clearly stated this was an ethnic violence.
The Hans were very angry that the Chinese security force watched and let the
Tibetans vent, burn, and even kill, and took no actions for a long time (1-2
days). [Same rule applies. Physical violence occurred never because it's a
right, it's because reticent approval from the top]. Such an unusual self-
constraint did not win any sympathy in the West. Instead, everywhere you turn,
people do just what you did, shouting slogans and buzzwords like “Tibet violent
crackdown”, “human rights”. This is the surest way to dumb down any intellgient
discussion.
Everyone in the West should read Noam Chomsky’s writign on “Manufacturing Consent”
to understand how the media in the West works. In this regards, the West is
indeed light years ahead of China’s rather primitive and crude censorship. After
all, refining lies util they resemble the truth has its roots in marketing - a
social science field that China lacks terribly.
For the moment, the West seems to enjoy embarassing China for whatever reason.
However, two big picture points:
1. Let’s trade places. Had Chinese people/official violently protest against
American racial conflicts (or UK’s North Ireland issue), would the Americans,
the government or the media give a damn ?
Certianly not! China is free to express its opinions. But nobody would care or
even report.
So why the hell would the Chinese people/government even care about what the
West says ?
I suggest the Chinese and even the government to take these incidents a little
light heartedly. The protests show China has internal racial conflicts/tentions.
Surprise! This is a big country. Please lighten up, and laugh a little at this
almost circus like media. The SF relay enticed groups with even tenuous causes,
as reported by NY Times. The Animal Rights group was there shouting “Say No To
China’s Fur Trade!”. The Nuddist Group wanted to revert back to the Greek
tradition of competing in nude. [I cringed at the idea of people running naked
in Beijing. And Nike will be devastated!]
Once you laugh at this, the joker is not on you, but on them.
2. Tibetans’ riots and the subsequent attempts to embarass China have done
nothing but completely ensuring that there would be zero chance of any
conciliatory moves from China. They sealed their own fate. In this regard, they
showed their political immaturity. As a side note, Chinese government invites
Dala Lama’s brother to China every year and he accepts the invitations. So there
have been plenty of channels open for dialogues. Past dialogues failed for
positioning differences. Resolving issues with a non-democratic government is
surprisingly easy, because you do not have deal with large number of special
interest groups. Embarassing your opponent is a surest way to lose in any
negotiation.]
Finally, look at the big picture:
1. Two million Tibetans can not possibly stop the march of one billion. China
marches on with or without the Tibetans. Unfortunately, with globalization
reaching Tibet, they have to struggle to be economically strong and integrated
to preserve its shrinking culture vestiage. Lighten up - this is irreversible
trend, happening everywhere.
2. China marches on with or without the Olympic Games as a highlight or
lowlight.
A warning for a few foolish westerners or atheletes who want to “excercise their
rights” during the Game (e.g. showing an insensitive banner) ? Not only this is
against the official Olympic rule, they are likely to trigger serious physical
violences from the general public. When that happens, don’t be surprised it
might be “condone” by the police.
It looks like BBC is actually trying with article such as this one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/7340987.stm
Who knows, although it was hacked and brought down by probably pro-Tibetan hackers, maybe anti-cnn does have some influence. I don’t recall BBC ever dedicating an entire article on how Overseas Chinese see the Olympics. Bravo.
On the other hand, Guardian articles on China makes me laugh. A recent Op-Ed suggested that Brits should boycott China’s culture too and urged to close British museums displaying the works of some young Chinese artists and warrior statues (which the Brits stole from China during the days when the Brits were playing the roles of the imperialistic crack dealer and offered some Opium in return, but the author obviously chose not to mention). Even many left wing Brits on the forum laughed that this type of racist garbage.
Ironic how the Chinese from the PRC complain about Western media bias. Let’s face facts about the kind of society China is: in the US, you can stand in front of the White House with a sign reading Down with President Bush; in the UK, you can stand with a sign in the middle of Trafalgar Square that reads Down with the Gordon Brown; in France, you can stand with a placard at the base of the Eiffel Tower with a sign that says Down with Sarkozy. In all those countries, you can write articles, start websites, go on television, speak on the radio against the respective governments. Can a person in China stand in the center of Tiananmen Square with a sign that says Down with Hu Jintao? Can people in the PRC go on television and criticize the Party? Can you write anti-government articles and publish them in newspapers? Or complain on the internet, radio, or even on a street corner? That’s the difference between the PRC and other countries. The Olympics should have never been awarded to China in the first place, the only reason it was done is because of the true nature of what the Olympics has become, which has much less to do with sport and much more to do with money. The pro-Tibet protests are just the tip of the iceberg. Surely, if the Communist Party of China fell today, there would be millions of people in China celebrating that fact. Where are their voices?