April 15 update:
Harassment of Wang Qianyuan has gone off-line, and in fact precedes this post by several weeks. Also, a friend of Wang's at Duke University has written in directly:
I am a friend of the girl's and I was at the protest. The fenqing are going insane. I am meeting with Duke's president this afternoon, and it looks like the FBI will become involved. Her parent's apartment in Qingdao was attacked with rocks, and they are in hiding (I have confirmed this in direct communication with her mother). This all started on the Duke Chinese Students and Scholars Association website. They started posting “TIBET WAS, IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE CHINA'S” messages a month ago.
[…]
Because all the information about her and her parent's addresses and calls to do violence were posted on the Duke list, it is being considered criminal incitement to violence. What a mess. The saddest thing is that she's a sweet naive kid, and she did nothing but cross over to “enemy lines” and talk to her Tibetan dorm mate, and try to initiate some kind of dialogue…
————
Original post:
While China was subject to ritual humiliation this past week as the Olympic torch was relayed, ignoring the seemingly obvious, through Europe and North America, nationalism quickly boiled over and anyone hoping for an objective discussion on Tibet, even one of the most well-known journalists in the country, is now a race traitor.
So if this week's Free Tibet protests were successful, does that make the silencing of many liberal voices within China acceptable collateral damage?
The human flesh search engines, helped no doubt by the ‘wu mao dang' have gone into serious overdrive; one mainland Chinese woman now studying at Duke University was seen by other overseas Chinese students participating in a Free Tibet protest. What was possibly for her just an attempt to bridge some sort of discussion has led to torrents of horrid abuse and at least one lengthy human flesh search engine witch hunt, on popular forum website Tianya, which began on April 10:
作者：Bejing_2008_ 提交日期：2008-4-10 17:01:00
在SF的奥运火炬接力顺利完成的同时,全美各地华人华侨留学生也都给予了北京奥运最热烈的支持,然而在今天的DUKE大学留学生的支持奥运反对藏独的集会游行中,青岛2中毕业的王同学竟然与藏独支持分子同流合污,毅然抛弃事实,站在藏独分子的一边,宣扬西藏人权问题,赤裸裸打着free tibet的旗号,实在给中国人民丢脸,在场的几百留学生都目睹了其罪恶行径.王千源–如果说某些美国人算作无知,那你呢?你这样的崇洋媚外的嘴脸是要永远被中国人民所不耻!http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Carolinas/31158646.html
At the same time that the Olympic torch relay was smoothly completed in San Francisco, ethnic Chinese and Chinese overseas students from different places all across America gave the Beijing Olympics their strongest support, and as overseas students at Duke University gathered today for a protest to support the Olympics and oppose Tibetan independence, Qingdao #2 Middle School graduate classmate Wang actually mired herself in with those supporters of Tibetan independence, completely abandoning the truth, and stood on the side of the Free Tibetters, trumpeting Tibetan human rights issues, baldly calling for a free Tibet, effectively embarrassing the Chinese people, with her evil sins witnessed personally by several hundred overseas students at the scene. Wang Qianyuan: if those Americans are just acting out of ignorance, then what about you? That foreign toady face of yours will always be a shameless one to the Chinese people!
http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Carolinas/31158646.html
Following that intro are now eleven pages of comments:
作者：zeng_1985 回复日期：2008-4-10 17:59:19
虽然没看到图,但听说有这种人就愤慨!
作者：shhbf 回复日期：2008-4-10 18:06:33
应该全文转。
这个家伙，估计是被利益冲昏了头。不晓得他父母亲戚是不是也都转移出国了，也不想想自己的所作所为会影响多少人。
This guy, he must be dizzy with confusion. I don't know if his parents and relatives have all emigrated too, but hasn't he thought about just how many people will be affected by his actions?
作者：小杨不不 回复日期：2008-4-10 18:09:04
上图 啊！
作者：iambic 回复日期：2008-4-10 18:10:25
没什么说的，直接无视了。以后都别让这条狗接近至5米以内
作者：超级实验台 回复日期：2008-4-10 18:14:00
什么情况？
楼主飞了？
淘点证据出来啊–我去磨刀
Did the post author take off?
Dig up some proof–I'll start sharpening the knife
作者：iambic 回复日期：2008-4-10 18:17:18
那个啥，驻美使馆黑名单别忘了再加一个
作者：药罐子里的椰子 回复日期：2008-4-10 18:24:07
他可以去死了。不知廉耻的家伙。
作者：zlyuki 回复日期：2008-4-10 18:25:50
这个要顶
作者：蓝色秋裤 回复日期：2008-4-10 19:04:11
顶
作者：同样的故事 回复日期：2008-4-10 19:13:48
天哪
青岛2中的
太丢人了
就地处决吧
Qingdao #2 Middle School
Makes us lose so much face
Shoot her where she stands
作者：超级实验台 回复日期：2008-4-10 19:27:48
她？
作者：推倒推倒 回复日期：2008-4-10 19:37:56
上去把～
我就是要当网络暴民～
好好整整这样的人～～
I always wanted to be a net-thug~
I'll set her nice and straight~
作者：ntpilgrim 回复日期：2008-4-10 19:40:27
真的吗，一定要弄清楚。
作者：艹头 回复日期：2008-4-10 19:43:31
不会吧，楼主要拿出证据说话。
作者：超级实验台 回复日期：2008-4-10 19:46:33
楼主人呢？！
作者：durand 回复日期：2008-4-10 19:46:39
通报国安局、中国大使馆、当地政府
作者：二狗和三胖 回复日期：2008-4-10 19:48:31
拜托，别挟私报复啊，网民不都是瞎子啊
作者：lightscriteria 回复日期：2008-4-10 19:51:30
一辈子嫁不出去！！！
作者：飘青 回复日期：2008-4-10 19:52:31
不是吧!!真是青岛的吗?这下厉害找到根,哈哈还是天涯的 搜索引擎厉害啊!!哈哈!!强强!!不知道他家里人知道不,孩子在外面没人管了,会迷路的!
作者：wangxiaowenly 回复日期：2008-4-10 19:59:29
以后可能只有嫁给喇嘛的份了~
作者：xuxuming123 回复日期：2008-4-10 20:06:10
看来也只有婊子喜欢喇嘛了,希望不是她.
作者：lawyerhuyue 回复日期：2008-4-10 20:11:27
召唤人肉引擎！！
作者：lint金帛 回复日期：2008-4-10 20:15:33
是不是给洋鬼子日多了？怎么出了这样的垃圾
作者：hyngng 回复日期：2008-4-10 20:16:00
总会有些人头脑不清醒的
作者：yqh1001 回复日期：2008-4-10 20:18:41
关键要有证据！
不冤枉一个好人，但也绝对不放过一个坏人！
We don't want to do any injustice to good people, but if she's bad, we must never let go!
作者：sevenqiqi 回复日期：2008-4-10 20:22:45
消息确实可靠么？长的还算乖的嘴脸哎。。。
作者：wuhanlsx 回复日期：2008-4-10 20:24:22
请通知中国海关，如发现她，立刻弊了她，如果她还有家人，请找到她的家人，把这种无耻的子女打死了，免得害了中国人。
作者：红枫焱 回复日期：2008-4-10 20:27:37
为她的父母感到悲哀，本来可以引以为傲的孩子成了卖国贼——不知道她想没想过自己的父母在国内会如何抬不起头来
人在做，天在看啊
作者：ericxulove 回复日期：2008-4-10 20:33:28
光说也没什么证据啊,贴出照片来才行啊……
大家冷静,别太过激,没凭没据的,就这么乱喊话也不对~
说不定她是被对她一直有偏见的某些人给利用了,胡乱诽谤,任由网友辱骂她来解气???
Everyone calm down, don't be so drastic, there's nothing to base this on, yelling and shouting like this is wrong~
You never know she might be being used by someone with something big against her, slandering her, getting netizens to curse her to vent their anger!!!
作者：同样的故事 回复日期：2008-4-10 20:36:25
十有八九是真的，
是DUKE的留学生在MITBBS上发的
有代理可以上去看看
One overseas student at Duke put it up on the MIT bbs
If you have a proxy you can see it
作者：溢佳颐佳 回复日期：2008-4-10 20:38:24
如果真是这样
就在她家所有亲戚的门口贴上“汉奸”两个字
以后对她家亲戚的称呼就是汉奸
I'm going to put the words “race traitor” up on all her relatives' doors
Then her whole family will be called race traitors
作者：红枫焱 回复日期：2008-4-10 20:42:51
哪位用代理的兄弟姐妹把那个帖子截图发过来好了
作者：红枫焱 回复日期：2008-4-10 20:56:14
只有头像没有动作比较麻烦啊，这样不能证明她卖国啊，有没有拍到他宣传或者散发传单甚至举旗的镜头？
作者：天天坠涯 回复日期：2008-4-10 21:11:34
她是不是打入敌人内部去了？？？
作者：巨鸡鸡 回复日期：2008-4-10 21:31:28
让我日了她
作者：clover710 回复日期：2008-4-10 21:33:59
汉奸！
卖国贼！
天理难容！
迟早全家遭天谴！
Traitor!
Absolutely unacceptable!
Sooner or later your whole family will have to pay!
作者：四级士官 回复日期：2008-4-10 21:35:20
贱妇汉奸，民族败类！
作者：ggf7522 回复日期：2008-4-10 21:40:29
不知道她的父母在不在中国，不知道她的父母现在还是不是中国人，如果还是中国人的话明天就应该找个粪坑跳下去淹死得了。
作者：我爱瓷器瓷器 回复日期：2008-4-10 22:19:56
强烈呼吁大家先冷静！！！！
一定先要搞清楚事实，再来批评。如果不是汉奸，平白挂了这个最最可耻的名字,那可是天大的不白之冤哪!
就算这人真的这么无耻，大家鄙视她就是了，混绿卡嘛~，中国人这高贵的名号她也不配，我们欢送这样的人入籍美国还来不及呢。
We must first find out the facts, and then criticize. If she's not a race traitor, and we're calling her this most shameless of names for no reason, then what an enormous injustice this will have been!
Say she really is so shameless, then everyone can despise her, let her go for a green card for all we care, she won't be able to live up to the honorable name of a Chinese person, and we aren't able to send people like her off to get American citizenship fast enough.
作者：ccyanlove 回复日期：2008-4-10 22:22:13
如果是真的，啥也别说了，直接把她灭掉。
作者：zxmm123456789 回复日期：2008-4-10 22:27:52
好样的王同学，可惜我在大陆只能精神支持你，
作者：凌小呆子 回复日期：2008-4-10 22:27:58
支持什么关你屁事啊！
作者：xiaohuafox 回复日期：2008-4-10 22:30:48
mit上的确有这个帖子！！
人名没错！
The name is right!
作者：陈先进 回复日期：2008-4-10 22:51:19
楼主不是个东西
证据呢？
Is there any proof?
作者：不倒霉会死星人 回复日期：2008-4-10 23:13:25
报国安成不???有没有足够的证据啊????
The slander, vituperative and death threats continue in blasts, punctuated by the occasional call for proof of her “crime,” until it finally starts to appear toward the end of page two:
Followed shortly after by someone claiming to have been at the Duke U protest that day:
作者：antizangdu 回复日期：2008-4-11 6:10:18
我当时就在现场, 中国学生集会在杜克西校区举行, 总共有400人左右. 藏独本科生们从东校区沿着campus drive 一直跑到西校区, 在这个过程中, 一直有警察护送. 大概有十几个中国学生,学者,穿了”我的中国心”以及”北京奥运”的tshirt,护了一面很大的国旗, 一直跑在藏独的前面一两米处. 他们到了杜克西校区以后, 首先绕场跑了一周, 然后跑上了杜克大学大教堂的台阶上.在这段时间里, 我们一直有红旗围着他们,并问他们有没有去过西藏, 有没有去过中国, 其中大部分藏独都不吭声, 有一个美国小伙说他去过四个月….由于他们事先reserve了教堂前的位置,从晚上7点半到9点, 在他们上了教堂的阶梯以后, 中国学生和学者都在离最下一节台阶两米左右, 国旗在最前面的地方大家一起高唱国歌. 所有在国旗外面的人都是藏独的人. 学校校报的记者在他们身后拍照 照片相当的误导,而且已经刊登在今天校报的头条.
照片..网上的照片太小 http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper884/stills/rv87o3×3.jpg
这个小丫头就在包围圈的中间, 作出了这样的手势, 后面就有藏独的人在拍照 就是以下这张照片
http://www.mitbbs.com/article2/SanFrancisco/31322350_240.jpg
拍照的人就是楼上(雪印轻盈)那张大照片,最右边那面国旗边上蹲下照相的哪个人
小丫头真是为了出名,连自己的国家都卖了.
我不会贴照片,大家帮个忙 把照片贴上, 留个证据让中国人闭嘴?
The photo: the one online is too small: http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper884/stills/rv87o3×3.jpg
That little girl just stood in the middle, making this post, and the Free Tibetters behind her kept taking pictures, like this one:
http://www.mitbbs.com/article2/SanFrancisco/31322350_240.jpg
That girl, just to get some attention, was even willing to betray her country
I can't post photos, can everyone help me? Post the photos, show the proof.
Make us Chinese shut up?
Shortly after that comment, someone posted a link to a video from the Duke protest and counter-protest:
作者：心台几点 回复日期：2008-4-11 8:03:07
大家都看视频
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4J6nfyb-3k
5：16开始有王千源,很明显她是站在绝大多数的中国学生的对立面的
视频里有一段讲的挺清楚地
7:05的时候，几个同学围着她，质问她为什么打藏 独 旗 ，为什么不打五星红旗
7：27 她狡辩说香港也有旗
——————–
人肉!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Wang Qianyuan comes out at 5:16, and she's clearly standing opposite the vast majority of the Chinese students.
There's one spot in the video that's quite clear
At 7:05, a few classmates surround her, asking why she's calling for Tibetan independence, and not waving the red five-star flag
At 7:27 she retorts by saying that Hong Kong has a flag too.
Flesh engines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The video above is first posted on page two; the first of several guesses at Wang's US phone number is posted early on page three, and other Chinese Duke students appear to join in there, at which point there's a brief history debate, then after the majority of the language only becomes more violent from there until the end of the thread, which as of posting continues to grow.
Wang's national identity card number and parent's address and phone number back in China are posted on page six, around which time links to even larger spin-off threads begin to appear on the Tianya thread.
She deserves it, an politically ambitious girl but using it in a wrong way. She can betray China, but can also betray the States… or others. Once a liar, always a liar.
I’m an overseas Chinese.
This isn’t someone with a political opinion trying to “bridge” the gap. If she wanted to do so, she has plenty of opportunity to reach out and speak with the Chinese community directly. (She’s already responded to the controversy through the Duke Chinese student association, by the way; she could’ve reached out to the Chinese community in the first place, the same way.)
The fact that she resisted the opportunity to do so, and instead chose to speak out in broken English, in the middle of a confrontation between the Free Tibet flag and the Chinese national flag, just confirms that she’s performing for the Western crowd behind her. We can only speculate about her motives for doing so, but all of them reflect very poorly on her.
[…] Forest University China: Fallout from the Free Tibet protests » This Summary is from an article posted at Global Voices Online on Saturday, April 12, 2008 […]
The human flesh search engines, helped no doubt by the ‘wu mao dang’ have gone into serious overdrive
how can you be so sure to make this conclusion? i wonder if you catch the meaning of wu mao dang and human flesh search engines
Well, I have a pretty good idea of what defines each group, and what the difference are. Do I really need to say more than that the wumaodang only exist (and are paid) to stoke the flames of left-wing nationalist idiocy and occasionally lead attacks against designated ‘politically incorrect’ individuals?
On that point, check this brainmelt of a post out, where the china.com nutjobs try and figure out what it is the CIA is using to ‘mind control’ her: an ipod, a cellphone or a wristwatch.
She didn’t betray anyone you morons. See? This is why us westerners fear you and manifest against you.
You don’t understand that people supporting a cause that isn’t your own is part of what freedom is about. It doesn’t make them a traitor and it doesn’t give you the right to threaten them or injure them.
This comments are barbaric, and you are all mindless retards.
Seconded. This kind of witch-hunting is simply unacceptable to all civilised people. The idea that anyone must hold any given political view due to their country of origin or nationality is simply ignorant. It’s also quite frankly disgusting to see so many people attacking this woman’s right to freedom of speech, while enjoying the sort of freedom they would never enjoy at home.
You’re right, it is completely unacceptable. But like it or not, China is what it is. There are 1.3 billion people in this country, which holds hundreds of billions of US dollars in reserves and plays an irreplaceable role in the global economy, so dismissing China’s stance on Tibet or using economic leverage to improve human rights obviously isn’t an option any longer. The bigger the Free Tibet movement gets, the more of this kind of thing we’re going to see. Blind left-wing nationalist sentiment here will not just disappear because the West screams louder than the Chinese do, this is fact. If people in the West are feeling helpless about the situation in Tibet, or in China, unfortunately any sympathetic voices or allies they previously had in China have now been silenced because of how the torch relay protests have played out.
I of course know that we Westerners have the privilege of protesting however we choose to, but what are we supposed to conclude when the forms of protest we do settle on have the exact opposite result from what was intended?
This is the Cultural Revoltion. Denunciation by the masses. It’s one thing to disagree and even curse someone, but to publish their private details and encourage harassment of their family is just … sickening.
They being many doesn’t make their behavior acceptable. This is a cultural war.
They might be allies to my government, but not to me.
i’ve read a lot, but you never gives evidence on the army crackdown and the relevents.
This girl is definetly win you american hearts and green card, so she is no longer Chinese.
you lack of evidence, not respect the history, choose the wrong means, that result such fruitless results.
I can forgive a foreigner without sense of Chinese history and try to tell them the truth patiently
. They don’t know Tibet has been a part of China since several hundreds years ago.
BUT I can’t forgive this one because she was born in China, lived in China, she knows the truths history clearly. Just like France people can’t forgive those who worked with German government to occupy Franc in the War II.
@Jack:
Are you sure though, that this backlash might be a warning to us to reduce our dependence on China, and avoid becoming more depedent on it? If we become more independent, who’s to say China will not use it’s growing clout to force Western governments to reduce our freedoms at home, as it has been doing to Nepal, India and Bhutan, where peaceful protests against China’s government have been banned (and the crackdowns against them directed by the resident Chinese embassies, for good measure)?
Recent comments by the Chinese foreign ministry chillingly suggesting that Western media must display more “respect” to China before being allowed in would seem to suggest that they would like to be able to control what is said about them abroad. Who’s to say that in decades to come, the Western media won’t feel obliged to report favourably on Beijing, particularly if they have ever more important investments in China to protect?
We are facing nothing less than a challenge to the survival of our freedom and way of life which must be fought with every ounce of our power by reducing our dependence on China and the leverage these tyrants have over our economy. I am perfectly willing to put up with a painful economic recession so that I and my descendents live in freedom. Did we really fight two world wars and struggle against Soviet communism for decades to find ourselves under the power of pathetic Chinese despots?
I am afraind there will be a huge war later in this century in the middle of asia.
At the end, we are all American. Or, still we are the slave of American to produce low-price products,such as 800 million shirts in exchange of a boing plane. You american enjoy your democracy and happy-life, but leave the poverty and pollution in China.
As a man could read Chinese, you should know the people writting such comments are youth not only for nationalism but also for fun. Besides, the flesh search engine is originally initiated to solve issues cannot solved by governments and laws, but morally sickened by most people. Because of that, it defenitely not that perfect on many respects. It is the last resort.
Sorry, that should be *more interdependent* in my comment above.
I think this is wonderful. This will push the situation in China into a head where Chinese had to decide one way or the other, not the complacent, keep me fed and I will keep quiet situation. You either tell the truth, or you say what you are told to say. No middle ground. No sitting on the fence. Join the Jedi or the dark side. This will accelerate changes in China by decades.
She’s not my hero. The Tibetans are my heroes.
I’ve never read so much malevolent stupidity in one sitting.
Why doesn’t Global Voices take its own rules seriously?
“Please treat others with respect.
Comments containing hate speech, obscenity, and personal attacks will not be approved.”
Global Voices have gone way beyond any of that.
Those would be guidelines for readers, Dan, including myself at this point. If you’re referring to the content of this post, please be reminded that Global Voices Online strives to reflect conversations taking place within the localized blogspheres around the world, even when they get ugly.
As far as I can tell, the Chinese view of the torch relay protests this week is that they were disrespectful, hateful and racist personal attacks. So what are you gonna do, keep pretending that what Chinese people think doesn’t matter whatsoever? What I’ve translated above isn’t even the half of it. Since this morning on that thread alone both a picture of the door to Wang’s parents’ home has been posted, as well as a picture of Wang’s parents themselves. I’m as disturbed by this as you are, but to me the fact that the Tianya (not to mention all the other threads) discussion is even taking place just shows me that nothing in this world happens in a bubble anymore. The sooner we come to terms with that, the better.
This is e-mob vigilantism, and it has happened before. Look at the incident with the Korean Dog Poop Girl or the cat crusher in China. Since tying this with Chinese nationalism, it will probably only super charge the issue.
And John, I think the criticism against media bias and larger complaints against the West is appropriate and needed, but when they extend to such strident mob attacks on an individual and their relations/friends is where I draw the line. It’s a dirty, shameful tactic that has nothing to do with the issues discussed.
@Siv
I find it ironic that Siv talks about history and fails to address the terms in the article and comments, including “witch hunt” and “Cultural Revolution”
@CCT
We can only speculate about her motives for doing so, but all of them reflect very poorly on her.
Where is your outrage at the persecution of this girl? Why does she have to think either this way or that way because she happens to be born in China? Sickening.
[…] Is this going to put a break on further political liberalisation in China? In short, as John Kennedy at Global Voices Online has succinctly put it: have the pro-Tibet protestors made the silencing of many liberal voices […]
“The Chinese media spin the story as anti-Chinese riots instead of anti-government riots. They try to make it something against the Chinese people. It is not against the Chinese people.”
—Tsering Wangdu Shakya, Chair in Modern Tibetan Studies, University of British Columbia
How is this NOT nationalism? This couldn’t be any less linked to widespread nationalist sentiments amongst Chinese youth these days.
Quite honestly I have no problem what they do in China, but when their immigrants protest our policies on our soil, that’s a different matter entirely. The fact is that there ARE a lot of Chinese, and the western world IS concerned.
It interesting to observe perhaps that as she switches into Chinese, many more people are willing to engage her and listen as she makes each of her points.
The problem is that the whole Free Tibet movement has NEVER attempted to directly talk to ordinary Chinese people. That’s why they’re doomed to failure… this year they’ve managed to end up in the bizarre situation of having the CCP crack down on them with restraint relative to the way in which ordinary middle class Chinese are baying for their blood.
an article to share
作为藏族人的愤怒，告世人我们的生活！
前天，我写下了《我身为藏族，可我为我的某些同胞感到不齿》一文。一是为劝我的同学不要做傻事，二是我作为知道藏区事情的部分真相像人，我有责任以及义务向国际友人表达我们藏族人对这件事情的心态。不要一味的听信那些所谓的媒体的谎言。
今天早上，我看了国家新闻部门对于西藏问题的记者招待会，对西方记者怀疑的地方我很愤怒，我华夏民族中的一员——藏族，再不争气，我们也不可能忘记我们的恩人。并分裂我们整个中华民族。今天我写下以下文章，以表达我们藏族人的心态，当然我知道哪怕我的声音再弱小，但我相信，我们整个中华民族数以千万计的弱小声音汇集在一起将以洪水般那样凶猛，将西方媒体的谣言冲碎，将他覆灭。
首先以下一段话告西方媒体
今天你们质问了我们的国家新闻部，有的问题我想我作为一个老百姓更有资格来回答你们。
1.西藏人的不自由与人权问题
我想问你们，你们从哪里知道了我们的不自由？如果没有证据请不要乱说话。我们享受了比其他民族更多的优惠待遇，我们享受着社会的一切福利待遇，我们哪里不自由？我们藏族人再愚蠢，也不会受到你们的挑拨让我中华民族分裂。我们的阿米（爷爷）说：天上的老鹰要受巢穴的束缚，不管他非了多远总会想着自己的巢穴，地上的牛羊要受牧人的束缚，无论他怎么驰骋于草原他总要回圈。阿米没文化，对自由的理解却是那么的朴实，我们华夏民族乃至世界的所以民族我想都知道这个道理，要想风筝飞的高，那么线一定不能断，我们藏族人由衷的感谢你们西方的媒体，但我们自由，我们有人该有的权利，我们藏族人的生活像风筝一样越飞越高，可有人却希望剪断我们的线，让我们在中国共产党带领下得到的幸福落入深渊，你们为什么不指责这些人？他们在毁掉我们藏族人的生活！你们听达赖说，听一些不知道真相的外国人说，你们有听过我们发自内心的话吗？
我给你们讲个故事吧！
昨天，我的金金大爸来成都了，还带了几个乡亲，他们是来成都购买一些必要的生活用品。大爸问起我，色若已经好久没回家了，家里很担心。他在像我询问他的情况，我没说我强忍了眼泪，我不忍告诉他，色若现在的情况，因为我不知道他的生死。后来我告诉了他，现在你们西方媒体说我们的一些事情，大爸没有发怒很温和的说：我们藏族人，不会忘记国家的恩情，我们藏族人这次丢了这么大的脸，乡亲们没脸见国家了，家里出了这样的人，我们自己会收拾他们的，大爸哽咽着说不出话了，继续说道：色若他们几个没良心呀，去年国家还给我们家乡了一笔治大脖子病的钱，家乡好些人都医好了，羊都知道感恩，难道我们藏族人连畜生还不如…..。
告诉你们西方的白人，什么叫真正的人权，什么叫真正的平等，把国家帮助我们无数的事情中拿出一小件，我想也足够堵住你们的嘴巴。去年，阿坝州的州长在成都募捐了一笔给家乡人民治疗大脖子病的钱，还带来了很多医生。给家乡得了大脖子病的老人治病，国家考虑到我们藏族人的自尊，让那些干部医生去藏民的家里去帮他们治疗，做完后藏民要给钱，他们只这样说了句：国家要治好你的病，不是需要你的钱，需要你们把牲口喂好，为国家建设做贡献。再对比你们西方呢？只要是帮助百姓的，你们总大打着旗号说：我们去帮助穷人了，生怕世界上不知道你们做好事了，可你们有考虑到那些受帮助的穷人的感受了吗？他们会认为自己比别人差，比别人穷，地位也是最低下的。可我们的国家拿出了这么多的钱，考虑我们的感受，只说了句：建设国家，也就是说，我们并不可怜，我们也是国家的栋梁，那真正的鼓舞着我们藏族人。我们知道我们也是国家的栋梁。
2.教育与学习
你们总说西方的教育水平好，说中国政府对西藏及藏区的教育是世界上最落后的地区之一认为中国政府在歧视藏族人，我告诉你为什么藏族地区教育落后的真正原因吧！
我们藏区既然是中国的一员，国家也是平等的对待了我们，建立很多的学校，我们的其他兄弟民族自己募捐钱来给我们建立希望小学，你们也许会问，那为什么你们的文盲比例还是那么高。我告诉你，那是达赖利用了我们藏族人对宗教的信仰，达赖在每个寺庙设立学堂（主要学习藏文和佛经及藏族典故），你要知道那是世界上最落后的教学方式，达赖开始还愿意让学生去学国家统一的教育，后来他就取消了，所有去寺庙学习的小喇嘛不能学习中文教育，如果要学那么你的弟弟就不能去寺庙，老一辈因为对佛的信仰很是崇拜，因为自己的崇拜就这样被达赖剥夺了学生们学习文化的机会。你们为什么不指责达赖？你们为什么不让他主动取消学堂，让学生回到学校去？这才是你们真正应该呼吁的。
3.经济与收入
你们说，达赖集团闹独立是因为他们希望带领藏族人富强并自由，我告诉你藏族人纯牧的至少有80%以上是很富裕的，半农半牧的至少有60%以上也是很富裕的，我们的人均收入可以达到2万人民币。那你也许会问，那为什么还是那么贫困！我可以告诉你达赖是怎么掠夺百姓的财富的。
他随便的封一个忠诚于他的喇嘛为活佛，然后活佛就开始讲经颂道，藏族人对宗教的信仰是很强烈的，一早聚集在寺庙上，然后活佛坐在寺庙的大堂上，民众排着队的等待让活佛摸一下脑袋以得到祝福，也想得到活佛开封的码尼绳绳（就一个红色布带子），拿着自己买牛买羊得来的钱，一捆一捆的仍进募捐箱里（说是募捐箱其实是一个大箩筐，由两个喇嘛抬着收钱）然后活佛就这么走了，什么也没做。民众辛苦得来的钱就这样被掠夺走了。可达赖却什么也没为百姓做，民众没了钱当地政府为了民众生计就开始像中国政府要钱，也就是说我们的努力全给了这个白眼狼。当然我们的老一辈是出于自己的宗教自由，就算他把所有的收入捐献给了寺庙，那也是他自己的自由。
但现在80年代以后的藏族小伙子开始当家，他们不崇拜喇嘛，他们明白自己该怎么过活，寺庙的收入越来越少，达赖的经济收入也越来越少，他现在想独立，是因为他想继续奴隶化80年代以后的百姓，他想继续吸我们的血，所以他暴乱想夺取政治，奴化我们。从发生的事情中我们对达赖失望了，不，应该是憎恨。他的宗旨是：你信仰我，那你就把你的收入给我，我让你苟且的活着。你要不信我，那我就统治后继续让你苟且的活。
我们藏族人不是狗，我们是顶天立地的人，我们要真正的自由。我们不想继续被达赖剥削！我们爱我们自己的国家，爱我们的政府，但我们憎恨达赖。
西方的媒体你们知道了事情的真相了吗？不知道的话请随便问一个藏族人，他会告诉你他想怎么活，他会自豪的告诉你，他是让你们害怕的顶天立地的中国人。
我们和达赖只是藏族内部的事情，藏族是华夏民族的一员，华夏民族有权利因为我们同祖同宗但你们有什么权利干涉我们的事情？政府一向很和平，要换了我藏族人，你乱说话只会打碎你的狗牙齿，让你从此闭上你的狗嘴巴。
告网特
昨天我有幸拜读了你们的文章《在西藏我拣回一条命》，你们说我们藏族人很野蛮，我告诉你那是有血性，你们作为一个中国人，一天去了解那些喇嘛，他们给你说他们被怎么怎么了，你就写的漫天都是还添油加醋，我问你你去采访本拉登，他会说我是恐怖组织，我在杀百姓吗？我想他会说，我们正在被世界上的所有国家迫害，为了民族他们会奋起反抗。但事实呢？所以你这样做得到的后果我想我们整个中华大地上的人民都会拍手称快，只恨没把你打死！你在公开的为这些叛乱份子说好话，我们被压迫并虐待的人绝对会打断你的手。我们藏族人热情，对朋友那是欢迎的好酒好肉的招待，对破坏我们团结的人我们也是热情的，我们好拳好脚的招待你。
达赖组织不是人，我没什么文化也就高中毕业，但我识字，世界人任何一个为自己民族争取利益的组织绝对不会伤害自己的人民，可达赖却为了自己，他烧我们的商店，砸我们的房子，迫害我们的同胞，我们不可能相信一个专门杀自己人的组织会给我们带来什么幸福什么自由，我们在抗争，我们抗争的是那些叛乱分子，我们在欢迎我们欢迎的是为我们争取自由的，中华好男儿——解放军和人民警察。
我可以不忌讳的告诉你们，我们家乡壮年男子都在斗争，他们在巡夜，他们只要发现了叛乱份子想破坏我们的家园我们就超死的打，就像打狗一样。哪怕他是藏族人，他们只是败类！
You “conveniently” ignored many posts that object personal attack as below. If you did on purpose, then you are fooling the people here; if no, then you already have a paradigm against china.
楼主 大 中 小 发表于 2008-4-11 20:43
对于王千源和其家人，大家要保持理智！
我觉得，对于王千源的所作所为和她的父母，大家一定要理智对待。特别是在国内青岛生活的王的父母，大家更加要理智加以区别。也许目前王的所作所为，她的父母还不是太清楚，我们一定要清楚这一点，王千源是王千源，她父母是她父母，王支持藏独，不代表她的父母也在支持藏独。所以，应该先让有关部门了解清楚相关情况，也应该给她父母一点时间，去调查事情的来龙去脉。我们应该相信王的父母，在大是大非面前能够作出正确的选择！！！
楼主 大 中 小 发表于 2008-4-11 22:39
坚决反对对王千源家人的攻击！
王千源的言行应该由她自己来负责。她的家人是无辜的。呼吁网友不要株连她的家人。恐吓和漫骂不是战斗。
楼主 大 中 小 发表于 2008-4-11 20:24
为王千源说几句话，希望大家理解。
今天看了王千源的录像，因为我是青岛的，而且我老婆恰恰也是青岛2中毕业的，于是我们探讨了一番。
首先王千源毕竟是大一的小女生，而且在学校一直是一帆风顺，是意气风发，不知道天多高地多厚的时代，这种学生骨子里总有一种要超俗的倾向，认识自己就比别人水平高，加上对资本主义的向往以及本身喜欢从事政治倾向，特别是在国内她周围的环境一切向钱看官僚腐败因此她感觉不是很民主很自由的，当到了西方，被西方的文明吸引，因此倒向西方也是可以理解的。我也是过来人，在89年也向往西方的民主，也上街游行高喊打到腐败，我自己问自己我当年不爱国家吗？肯定是爱国的。今天我们能说一个小女孩是汉奸吗？帽子太大了。
现在我是理解国家利益民族利益是高于一切的，表面上是藏独，实际上是颠覆中国而已，甚至那些藏独份子都可能是被利用的。
对于王千源的错误，我们可以批评，但是说她是汉奸，太过了，毕竟是中国的孩子，我们希望她能理解，能我整体上看小问题，而不是钻牛角尖。
当然如果她加入了美国什么组织，或者受到某某组织的资助有意那样说，那就另当别论了，那就是卖国了。
不过我不太相信她是那样的，毕竟她是一个有理想有追求的好学生。希望她能醒悟。知道什么是真正的政治，而不是现在这样傻呼呼的还不知道自己闯了多大
Personally I think she have the write to say whatever she want…HOWEVER, what she did wrong is on a TV-interview, she claimed that her opinion represents most Chinese, which is clearly NOT the case.
Also, as far as I know there has not been any violent attacks against her person. If her fellow classmates decides to dislike her, isn’t it their RIGHT to do so? After all, I have never heard of a law obliging people to “like” someone they don’t like.
to Tsering Wangdu Shakya,
How can we not take it as against Chinese people when those terrorists are slaughtering random people on the street? I don’t see them checking if the victim works for the government or not before they beat/burn them to death.
Attacking Olympics torch bearers is not only going against Chinese people, it’s going against the whole world. Also, your friends at BBC, CNN, etc. are really not helping your case when they keep reporting on “anti-Chinese/anti-China” protests.
@Ping I don’t know where you found those comments, but quite clearly they’re not from the Tianya post linked to above.
@Wendy Hopefully not, but images like this are now being posted, and if I were her I’d be feeling quite threatened. Also, if you visit page 12 of the Tianya post, there’s more proof that people are stalking around her parents’ house here: 作者：辩论到底 回复日期：2008-4-14 7:17:51
John,
Appreciate for your open-mind. Those posts are from http://WWW.ANTI-CNN.COM, where you can find more and I personaly think it’s a good window to understand chinese. As for the abusive posts on TianYa, I believe most of them are from those young “punks” and it’s not the mainstream. I don’t think there will be a war, but still, the only way to stop war is to break through the barriers and have more communications between grass-rooted people rather than politicians. Technologies have makes it possible, now it’s our minds that decides the future–war, or peace. Thank you!
John,
“So if this week’s Free Tibet protests were successful, does that make the silencing of many liberal voices within China acceptable collateral damage?”
First, a couple of “liberal” voices inside China dismissing overseas Chinese’s angry response to western media distortion on 3.14 Tibet riots and their biased reporting on Olympics torch relay as “nationalist” fervor WERE NOT SILENCED. Instead, they were published by widely read newspapers and web sites with a readership of millions. The fact that this kind of voices not in keeping with the reporting from CCTV and Xinhua can be published at this VERY moment should give you an idea how liberal China has become that some of you blind westerners just do not want to admit.
Second, the “liberal voice” calling for “tolerance” enraged many Chinese because it downplayed the implication of western media’s long ingrained bias against China, despite evidences surfing on the web all over the world in this fateful month since 3.14, while labeling people’s justifiable response as “nationalist fever,” a usual strategy they have used against their critics for years. For they believe that there is no society, no national interests, but only individual, a downright delusion.
Third, I agree with some comments here that your selective translations of Chinese comments from web discussion appear highly problematic, to put it nicely.
I suppose you certainly know that the Chinese are new in exercising this free speech thing and yet to gain maturity and sophistication in this realm. You certainly know that there are senseless remarks on certain issues which a serious author would choose to ignore. But when you did choose to translate and publish them here you deliver a message and make statement. For those who can read Chinese would know immediately you have left out many different opinions, the opinions you find not helpful to convey your hidden agendas. For those who cannot access to Chinese web, who cannot read Chinese and can only rely on your translation here you present a half truth, and “A HALF TRUTH IS WORSE THAN A LIE.”
The translations you selected here have enough power to fan what you conceived “nationalism.” Beware, you see and treat those Chinese as nationalist mob, and then you will get a nationalist Chinese mob. Don’t play with fire. When can you learn and stop hurting people whom you claimed to hlep with all the seemingly good intentions and high ideals?
For me, I think i have right to call her “traitor”. Of course she also has the right to call me back whatever. This is the freedom of speech. But i know i can not attack her physically. This is the bottom line. So most of Chinese just express their opinion. what’s wrong with that?
Eastern culture is so differnt from Western culture.
Freedom means differnt to us. Don’t judge us on your
criterion. Olympics means a lot to us, not just a “Chinese government show”, you protest it, you hurt
130 million people’s feelings.
I am not a Chinese official, but a ordinary person in China. I hope Olympics is a party for young people
all over the world to celebrate. No politics, no wars,
no riots.
In the beginning, I feel sorry to some Tibetans.
But after these things, I hate Tibetan independence.
You pick the worry target.
This is just a microcosm of what really happens in China. This is just a tiny glimpse into the Cultural Revolution and what really happens in China to whose who speak up for the truth.
I feel sorry for this brave Chinese girl who dared to speak up for Truth. I worry for her family in China. We Tibetans have no idea where the Panchen Lama and his family is right now. I wonder what will happen to her family.
@Gilbert: Which Eastern Culture, tell me, supports violence and repression. So please don’t use the East Vs West cultural divide to justify China’s oppressive regime in Tibet. Moreover, we live in a global world. China will be judged by the world for it’s actions. If China wants to be a global leader, it will have to abide by globally acceptable definitions of human rights and justice.
Your Olympics “party” is at the cost of thousands of Tibetan lives. You all have blood on your hands. Tell me, can you go to sleep at night in peace know this. When you finally meet you Maker, you will be able to look Him in the eye. Oh wait, I forgot the Commies have no religion.
>Freedom means differnt to us.
No, freedom is freedom.
she wanted attention,
she wanted to play politics,
she wanted to show that she was different,
so..in a way..she deserved this..
a good lesson for her if she indeed wants to be a future politian.
“This kind of witch-hunting is simply unacceptable to all civilised people. The idea that anyone must hold any given political view due to their country of origin or nationality is simply ignorant.”
China is an uncivilized and ignorant country. Some shiny buildings a new military hardly make a modern society.
John Kennedy is right that China has soaked up too much of our manufacturing to be dismissed. That is the fault of our short sighted and corrupt bankers and executives and the politicians they control.
Lots of human blood for quarterly profits.
@tingting
How can you both say that the couple of liberal articles telling people to calm down “enraged many Chinese”, and then go to say that John should be careful to regard what he sees as a “nationalist mob”?
You’re both repudiating yet supporting the idea of speaking for a group of people.
To me, the reader, it seems that both you and John may be pursuing an agenda in order to win support, and that is very likely. Right now, emotions are very high, and anyone who speaks publicly will have an irresistible temptation to exaggerate and downplay certain things in order to create a narrative.
I guess, what I’m saying is I’m just going to be very skeptical of anything written right now and hope that after the Olympics we’ll have more sober analysis of what actually went on.
does western cuntries really know the truth of China.peole in China all knows that Tibet has changed better and better these years!all you care is how tibetans distroy the truth!
Tibet is always a part of China !!
all you can do is to come to china and see it !
anyway, this is a chinese problem ,there is no need for outside blind to solve it
When 5 chinese girls, 4 of them han and 1 tibetan, were buried to death by members of the Dalai Lama gang, YET CNN etc painted the murdering criminals as victims of the Chinese government, did you Mr Kennedy feel angry? Note that in this case this girl was only verbally abused, while in the case the 5 girls they were murdered.
The Dalai Lama gang relied on the CIA for money for 20 years until the 70’s, and is now funded by other US foundations, including the “US democracy foundation”, with the expectation that the gang members generate trouble for China.
STQ: A good lesson for you would be learning that no one “deserves” to be harassed and threated because of their political beliefs. You and all those defending this blind irrational and fanatical sense of nationalism are making China look bad.
I don’t dismiss the possibility that you are trolls but sadly you look like the real thing.
You and those like you who think she “deserves it” are animals. It’s that simple.
Aqua:
You and your people’s action just helps advertising
beijing Olympics. KEEP ON DOING, we will see what happens.
How dare you say chinese kills Tibetan? Chinese government liberated Tibet peacefully in 1950. This is history,you can’t change that.
Some westerners treat dalai as a symbol of freedom.
How do they know a real dalai?
But before 1950, Tibet is a society fed on slaves.
The average life-span is below 40.
Dalai and nobles don’t treat slaves as “persons”,
they used human skins and bones to make religionary tools.
But the funny thing is that when dalai get away from Tibert,lost his reign of Tibet, he changes to a “freedom fighter” in foreign countries.
How can he has the right to say “human rights”?
@Gilbert: Yes, you cannot change the past, but you surely learn from it and try and undo some of the damage.
China liberated Tibet peacefully in 1950? peacefully? by rolling tanks into a buddhist nation? Are you really so delusional? let me give you some facts:
- Since China invaded Tibet in 1950, more than 1.2 million Tibetans have died as a direct result of the occupation
- more than 6,000 monasteries have been destroyed, and thousands of Tibetans have been imprisoned and tortured for their political or religious beliefs.
- Last November, Tibetan nomad Runggye Adak was sentenced to 8 years in prison for simply calling for the return of the Dalai Lama to Tibet.
- And the Panchen Lama, Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, where is he? Chinese authorities kidnapped this young boy and his family in 1995 just days after he was recognized as the Panchen Lama. He has not been seen since. Let China release the Panchen Lama. Let them show him to the world. Show us he is alive. And I swear to God I will not say a word against China after this.
“But before 1950, Tibet is a society fed on slaves”. You have clearly been misled by Chinese propaganda to justify Tibet’s supposed “liberation”. My grandfather was imprisioned for 14 years by China in Tibet for simply refusing to denounce the Dalai Lama. This is the kind of loyalty and love Tibetans have for someone you call a “feudal” leader and slave owner. Will anyone in China lay down his life willingly for Hu Jintao.
Tibetans are lucky and blessed to have a leader like the Dalai Lama. Even though we have lost our homeland, thanks to him and his grace, we are loved the world over and people support us. Unlike China, which is feared and hated. Our strength is our religion. We have the Dalai Lama and our religion to tide us through difficult times. What do you have?
“Truth knows that one place, one time, in this great world, there was a nation called Tibet. And its citizens were proud. And its skies were blue and clear and the sound of monks’ prayers rung like sweet bells in the mountain valleys and the barley harvest was like gold beneath the snowy peaks. And the people knew freedom. All who tell you different are liars. And you know this. “
Right or wrong, the cogs of the “flesh search engine” could learn a lot about PR from the Tibet clique.
This kind of ugly behavior by pro-China mobs is exactly why the international community is appearing to side with Tibet, even with what appears to be little proof to back up their accusations.
It is the ones shouting loudest and most violently that appear the most guilty.
You cannot respond to accusations of being violent oppresors with a response of planning to “find them, and beat their shameless children to death”. Sort of proves their point.
To Aqua,
Please desist from spreading disinformation regarding the ‘killing of Tibetans’
The following excerpt is from
http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
“Both the Dalai Lama and his advisor and youngest brother, Tendzin Choegyal, claimed that “more than 1.2 million Tibetans are dead as a result of the Chinese occupation.” The official 1953 census–six years before the Chinese crackdown–recorded the entire population residing in Tibet at 1,274,000. Other census counts put the population within Tibet at about two million. If the Chinese killed 1.2 million in the early 1960s then almost all of Tibet, would have been depopulated, transformed into a killing field dotted with death camps and mass graves–of which we have no evidence. The thinly distributed Chinese force in Tibet could not have rounded up, hunted down, and exterminated that many people even if it had spent all its time doing nothing else.”
The constant disinformation from the Pro-Tibet camp as well as their ferociously violent riot staged in Lhasa has not exactly inspired confidence in your honesty or good nature.
What can I say?
As much as I loathe this girl for being the attention whoring clown that she is, I do agree that she has the right to speak, in the same way that some people in the America have the right to say that September 11 was a government conspiracy (namely that the US itself bombed the World Trade Center buildings with missiles in order to shift the blame on the Muslims and justify a war abroad).
But then again, you must understand the aversion that the conspiracy theory people have attracted from the American masses.
@Yinbin: I will not desist from speaking the truth. I live in a free country unlike you. Those who have never seen sunlight will never know how it dispels even the most absolute darkness.
And please don’t throw “The Tibet Myth” article written by a Marxist professor at me. It is, to put it mildy, crap. Like a fellow blogger says ” I hope Michael Parenti is proud of his current notoriety and his usefulness to the PRC’s worldwide propaganda campaign?.
“In the Quiet Land, no one can hear
what is silenced by murder and covered up with fear.
But, despite what is forced, freedom’s a sound
that liars can’t fake and no shouting can drown”
- Aung San Suu Kyi
this ís sick. so that’s the progress in china’s society, after 5000 years of history.
reminds me of neonazis/white power. in china however, such people are socially accepted.
One thing we do not into account here is that only a small fraction of the 1.3 billion chinese have accesse to the internet. And the ones who do have limited access and censorship. Also it is more and more obvious evryday that chinese agents are storming or invading sites like youtube that shape public opinion in some cases. This way, westerners get a distorted view of chinese public opinion, they criticise and make bad (non-productive) comments, which in turn are used by the chinese media to project the west as an enemy and bring out nationalist sentiment which supports the government. It’s like a nightmare orchestrating itself in real life.
I believe that a large portion of the people wjo made these horrible comments are in fact agents with an agenda. Of course another portion are people who followed up to this incitation of hatred and some that are just true fanatical nutters. A small percentage were rather resonable and wanted proof and an even smaller percentage thought she wasn’t wrong at all.
I am very saddened to see that this row of protests has deteriorated human rights and freedom of expression for the chinese even more. Same way I want tibetans to be free, I want the chinese public to be free to express thamselves. I have protested too and i’m dissapointed that our voices have brought a bad result. I’m thinking as hard as i can to find a more effective way to push this issue. I think the first step should be to access the chinese public somehow and try not to hate them. We shouldn’t take the extremist voices this serious because we give them power this way. That goes for both sides.
Just because extremists shout louder than moderates, it doesn’t mean they are more in number. It means they are on the defensive, they have run out of true arguements and they prefer to get violent than to accept they might be wrong.
@Aqua,
Speaking as a former buddhist - see my points below
1) I was once a very devoted buddhist, I was about visit Tibet. I denounce the cult/religion, after I saw monks slaying civilians! I am happy I am no longer a buddhist! Lama is a disgrace to the buddhist religion, and I do not want to associate with it.
2) Dalai thinks when tibet gains independence, it will be free???? First U.S. will repeat history all over again like how they treated the American Indians. First the U.S. will send tropps there, then send missionaries to convert those lamas to Christians. Thirdly, to extinct the tibetan race by having their women bare mix children. I guess few tibetans (separatists)love the idea!
I may forgive some brainless westerners who do not know a thing about tibet history trying to chime in this internal small affair of China. They are delusional and puppets of their own governments and medias. However A Chinese who does so is a race traitor. In other times, she can have freedom of speech, she can say she enjoyed sleeping with the lamas and Richard Gere. This is an attack on the olympics, and some western nations try to sabotage the Chinese pride, this is when Chinese stand up and unite thanks to westerners’ propoganda.
I’m thinking as hard as i can to find a more effective way to push this issue. I think the first step should be to access the chinese public somehow and try not to hate them.
Thank you, schizomorph, +2 to you. Actually, for some of us western bloggers here in China, we’ve been saying the exact same thing for some time now. One of the most viable solutions to the problem you put forth, IMHO, is what Davesgonechina has outlined in his post last month, Engaging Chinese Citizens, in which he shows how in less than five minutes, anyone can be plugged in to a huge and immediate community of…engaged Chinese citizens. But first you need to read this other post of his, SchizOlympics: Worlds Fail Us. Once you’re through that, here’s all you need:
Google Translate (Chinese->English and English->Chinese)
Dict.cn, for any specific vocab
Twitterment or even better, Twifan, to take that specific vocab and find Fanfou (Chinese Twitter) users already having conversations on, say, 西藏.
Yes it’s complicated and awkward and prone to leave you feeling silly, but it does work. I fully agree with what you’ve said above, but it’s going to take small steps, and a lot of them, over a long period of time, if this impasse is ever going to be resolved. And it’s not even guaranteed that it can be, but the result of doing nothing is that nothing will change.
My advice now to myself five or six years ago, when I couldn’t understand any Chinese, when I was scared of China because I still saw it as a monolithic entity and its people as CCP drones, when I would have been out there on the Free Tibet side, would be to stop listening to Beijing propaganda, to stop accepting Dharamsala campaign rhetoric at face value, and to shift the information and communication dynamic by forging one-to-one relationships with actual individuals who have their own independent and often nuanced or conflicting ideas and perspectives on the whole range of issues.
Forget what gets written in Chinese media. Half the journalists and editors would love to, the problem is that on things like Tibet they don’t have any choice in the matter on what ends up getting printed or broadcast. Do you know that there are very, very few Chinese journalists who don’t have blogs? Start with them! Blogs for professional, highly-trained Chinese journalists are often the only places they get to write ‘the story’ the way they think it ought to be.
And I think it prudent to rephrase what you say here:
We shouldn’t take the extremist voices this serious because we give them power this way. That goes for both sides.
On the Tibet issue, there are a lot of people with huge amounts of time and energy and money invested in seeing that the discourse surrounding Tibet never changes, even if the situation does—or, as all those Chinese flag-wavers we saw this week are trying to say, already has. Yes, that goes for both sides. You can see this in some of the comments left by trolls above and no doubt with more to come below. Who is satisfied with seeing both sides screaming and pushing at each other? I’m not.
How many tibetan women dalai gave to Bush and Richard Gere as sex presents?
@ Tsering Wangdu Shakya
So you are saying it’s ok to burn girls alive (4 Chinese and one Tibetan by the way,) and vandalize shops? Wow, you deserve to be an American Citizen.
You should be greatful that only the rioters are locked up in China, and not your family members over there eh?
Pepe, people like you are racists against the east for too long, that’s why we stand up and denounce people that behave like you, suprised?????
@ Guest:
If your countries (some) did not offend us, Chinese, by paying tibetans and pretenders to protest the Olympics, we would not have to come to our defense! Blame yourselves and government propaganda! By the way, Dalai and the tibetan exiles living in your countries are on your governments’ welfares. Blame your governments (especially the U.S.) for their failure to lift the economy out of the coming 2008 recession. Ask them to not waste money on Irag war and throw money at Dalai for him to spend on terrorists acts!
@ Aqua, The cultural revolution affected all Chinese people, including Hans and minorities. Many of the Hans culture and religion were destroyed too, not just tibetans etc. The Hans and other minorities have forgiven the Chinese government, because we have seen the progress over the last 30 years China has provided for her people. 20 years ago, the Chinese government has granted Tibetans and other minority families at least two children per family. The Hans can only have one child policy per family. Muslims can buried the dead in a grave, whereas Hans can only have cremation for the dead. You still think these kinds of right is NOT enough?????
I am Han, my husband is a Chinese Muslim, and we are living in the U.S. If we go live in China now, we will enjoy many advantages that the Hans do not have, because there’s a minority member in the family!
If tibetans are buddhists and friendly as you mention, why can’t you let go of such hatred????? Let’s live together in a harmonious and peaceful society! IS it that hard to do????
She is not to only victim to China’s blogsphere tendencies.
The “global man hunt for Jin Jin’s attacker” also misidentified a 44 year old Tibetan immigrant in Salt Lake City as the protester in Paris who jumpped the paralympian:
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_8864686
John, I hope you will go after the Chinese netters, as well as the Tibet protesters who went after crippled girl in wheelchair, alike.
@ Aqua, response to your comment about Chinese don’t have religion. If having a religion means kneeling at the commands of a cult leader like Dalai to cause harm. I rather let go of religion which I already have abandoned my buddhist belief after March 14 incident! I am a proud Han Chinese. My spouse is a proud and grateful Chinese minority who is grateful to the Chinese government for giving minorities special privileges.
schizomorph
I’m a Chinese residing in states now. The recent protests prove this old saying absolutely right—“the road to the hell is paved with good intention.”
I sincerely believe you, as well as other western protesters are with good intention to help both Tibetans and Chinese, but sadly, in reality, you are hurting both sides. Why? Because you don’t really understand what you are doing.
1. Tibet issue is not a simple “human right” issue. It’s involved in history of opium war, WWII and cold war, politics, ethnic, religion, economic, human right, etc etc. Your protests are making a complicated issue more frustrated and I’m sure neither side will benefit from that.
2. Neither of Tibet exile government and Chinese government is angel. It’s true that Chinese government should be criticized, how about Dalai Lama? If you are willing to open your mind to information from all sides, you may agree with me that he is more a excel politician than a spiritual leader who supposed to reveal the consciousness of human being. Remember this is a war between TWO governments and both are armed with “reasons”. It’s understandable that some western politicians join the ally of Tibet side, but for common people like you and me, did anybody really benefit from the Cold War?
3. More effective way? Yes, hatred and bashing definitely is not the way. I’m not a Christian, but I know Jesus Christ ever said, who think you are not guilty can cast the stones. Deep in your mind, is there hatred against Chinese just because they are not Christian, they have different culture and political system, or just because they are ignorant, stubborn, barbarian Chinese?
I have full respect to you and all people like you, but as it’s said again —“the road to the hell is paved with good intention.”
Le,
I’m an oversea Chinese. I can’t say I’m a Buddhist, but I’m studying Buddhism very hard which benefits me a lot. Personally I think Mr. Dalai Lama is more an excel politician than a Buddhism leader, so please don’t be misled by him. Besides, Tibetan Buddhism is just one sector of Buddhism. Here We are fighting for real justice and consciousness of human being, not for being a winner, with hatred, both sides are suffering.
@ Anonymous:
5000 years of history taught us (Chinese) to unite to defense against racisims. 5000 years of history taught us NOT to practice double standards like you know who!
Thanks a lot John Kennedy, That’s a lot of information and it will take me a while to go through and digest.
LE, I have the impression the you are only informed from one side. Try opening both ears!
I’m sure tibetans prefer to live in peace than fight. There must be something that causes them to fight and there is enough truth out there thankfully. I hope you can access it from china.
@ Pepe
People like you have such high moral standards commit the crime of splitting nations in the world! —“the road to the hell is paved with good intention.” HELL is definitely waiting for people like you!
@ schizomorph,
Normally I do not care about politics. I like freedom of speech, etc., but when China is in danger of losing a limb (Tibet,) as a Chinese descent, I need to do something. This time I choose to side with Communist for the sake of being Chinese. As a Chinese, I have a responsibility to be a Chinese patriot! Of course I hope someday China will practice democracy, but I hope the west gives China time. It’s still in a developing stage, nothing is perfect, and there are lots of work to be done! I see some (not most) westerners bashing Chinese, so I have to defense for the sake of being Chinese. I hope you understand!
Thanks for your suggestion though, I hope one day China and Tibet will live in peace and harmony as ONE country!
John Kennedy writes:
“On the Tibet issue, there are a lot of people with huge amounts of time and energy and money invested in seeing that the discourse surrounding Tibet never changes, even if the situation does—or, as all those Chinese flag-wavers we saw this week are trying to say, already has.”
I don’t think you have had a serious talk with those”flag-wavers” who took to the street in London, Paris, SF, Toronto…and actually know what they thought about the Tibet issue. Too bad few western media gave them a decent interview or really cared about what they really thought–they have never had problem giving time generously to Free Tibet people though; this is one of the factors that fuels the anger on the Chinese side.
Yet people like you were quick to draw conclusion that the Chinese protesters there were waving flags to see “the discourse surrounding Tibet never changes.” Here is where and how your western journalist bias sets in and misleads the public with half truth if not share distortion or lie.
I happen to know some of those flag-wavers; i also know they had heated discussion on Tibet issue among themselves. Some even propose to have peaceful dialogue with the Free Tibet people, to share the different perspectives on the issue; only that they meant the real thing, not just for show. and many of them agreed that there are many things that need to be improved, such as as the widening gap between rich and poor and racist attitude in some Han people toward Tibetans. There is no short of such voices on Chinese web sites too.
Of course the discourse on Tibet will change as the situation changes. Questions are to what degree and on what specific issue. I assume we all agree that it should be a discourse between the enlightened people, not just politicians, and ultimately