Last week someone left a comment on a GVO post, something to the effect of ‘the whole world hates the Chinese people now' and for a lot of people in (and outside) China, it sure is looking difficult to even be Chinese these days.
Following the violence in Seoul during the Olympic torch relay there last week, a lot of Chinese fenqing types are for the most part just seeing what they want to see in how their generation and China is now being perceived abroad, and not only on anti-CNN.com.
At least these militant patriotic voices are still getting the most play online. The ‘River Crab Goes Ashore' blogger has been posting recently on the themes of Olympic nationalism and China's image, and on May 2 reposted a piece that has been making the rounds on the internet, apparently written by a female student now in Korea, ‘Chinese exchange students cry foul: The Koreans have gone crazy!' as well as the accompanying YouTube short:
我们是27号当天参加迎接圣火的在韩留学生，我们和所有的中国留学生一样，是为了我们伟大的祖国，为了支持北京奥运而自发的组织前往迎接奥运圣火。然而我们的好意和爱国心被韩国的媒体抹煞，被他们曲解，这几天看到这些主流媒体的报道，我们每个在韩留学生的心都被伤透了，我们坚强的想着我们的祖国，我们的政府一定会还给我们公道。我们看着电视新闻里的报道画面，我们的学生挥舞着国旗，大声的呐喊“中国加油北京加油奥运加油”而播音员的解释却是中国留学生在恶意示威。说是中国大使馆纠集动员留学生示威闹事，甚至还说大使馆一个月前就给留学生准备了棍子等凶器。对，那天是有学生和不良分子起了冲突，但试问，当时的情况下哪个有血有肉的中国人可以视若无睹，圣火传递一路坎坷，出了那么多的事情，我们的学生被打伤，国旗、火炬被抢，如今来到了最后一个资本主义国家韩国，那些不良分子手持凶器就在留学生面前挑衅，而最终这些凶器却被报道成留学生所持有，他们采访不良分子，控诉留学生如何殴打他们，嘴里说着流利的韩语，却硬说自己只是来韩观光客，但韩国人就相信。
韩国网上贴出了留学生联合会干部的照片、学校、学科、年龄甚至手机号码，这些学生会代表的人身安全受到巨大威胁。不光是他们，从昨天周一开始，普通中国留学生们在学校、外面和打工的地方都受到了不同程度的威胁，在我们家附近对我很好的大妈，往常看到我就会亲切的拉着我问东问西，今天我跟她打招呼，她竟然立刻把头偏向一边。我一起住的朋友眼眶泛红的回来，一问才知道，她在回来的地铁上，只是拿着书翻译上课资料的，坐在她旁边的韩国男学生看到她在查中文，立刻就问”너 중국인요?”（你是中国人吗？）朋友问怎么了，他立刻就说“ 중국개새끼（中国狗杂种）”朋友问他”우리 처음 만나서 왜 나쁜 말이 했어요?（我们第一次见为什么要骂人？）”谁知那胖子竟然说 “중국사람이 다 개새기요（中国人全都是狗杂种） “朋友气不过立刻说”너 개새끼잖아（你才是）”，没想到周围的几个韩国人竟然全冲着我朋友围过来，并且七嘴八舌的说“原来就说中国人劣等今天一看果然没素质”，弄得她一个女孩子只能车一停也不管是哪站立刻就跑下车。 这样的事情这两天发生很多，问问周边的朋友，大部分都或多或少的遇到过，现在我们不敢单独出门，不敢太晚回来，一个人时甚至不敢用中文讲电话，我们晚上在外面吃饭时说中文，周围的韩国人竟然几乎都不吃饭拿异样的眼光瞪着我们，就连住在一层楼的韩国大学生都敢占着厕所不给我们用。在韩国两年来，从来没碰到过这样的事情，早就知道看到的都是道貌岸然，但没想到，一夜之间全还原了真面目。想告诉在国内的同胞真相，也感叹国内的朋友竟然大部分都不知道韩国出了这样的事，不知道韩国媒体甚至比CNN的报道更加恶劣，矛头直指驻韩大使馆和中国政府。今天韩国著名的Naver网站上，首页头条就标出他们总理的话：”中国人暴力示威是从侧面损伤韩国人的自尊“同时韩国媒体还指出，韩国民众现在对中国人暴力事件的愤怒没有丝毫减少，要求抓出捣乱分子交由司法处理。天哪，这到底是个什么地方，我们未来的情况到底会怎样，我们不敢跟国内的家人说，怕他们会担心，只有互相安慰互相告诫千万不要单独出门，甚至商量好把手机的快捷键设置成好朋友的电话，万一出事立刻能拨出求救，因为我们连警察也不相信。
请你们给我们加油，给我们支持吧，有祖国和政府在，我们一定什么都不怕，也请你们转告自己在韩国的家人朋友，一定要注意安全啊。
在首尔，27的奥运圣火虽然传递过去了,可是韩国国内却一片对中国的讨伐声.
主要是针对所谓的中国留学生27号的”暴力示威”. 国人都知道,这是夸大其辞的东西. 当然我们的留学生中那天是出现了不够聪明的举动,也许是因为爱国激情的膨胀,有部分学生对ZD分子动了拳头.就是因为这个,给韩国媒体一个盼望已久的反华机会。还有，现场那些ZD分子，自己带来了改锥，扳手，石块等凶器，卻对着镜头说是中国学生袭击他们。最近，韩国新闻中不断播出那些“暴力镜头”和一些所谓的凶器证据，然后说我们的暴力严重影响了韩国国民的爱国自尊心。现在，韩国政府居然要求中国就此道歉。
In Seoul, even though the torch relay finished on the 27th, here all of Korea is still crusading against China.
It's mainly being aimed at Chinese students' so-called “violent demonstrations” on the 27th. We all know this is being exaggerated. Of course we exchange students didn't make the smartest moves that day; maybe because patriotic fervor was surging, some students raised their fists toward the Free Tibetters. It was this that gave Korean media the chance they've long been waiting for, to turn anti-China. Also, the Free Tibetters who were there brought screwdrivers, wrenches, bricks and other weapons with them, then turned to the camera and said it was Chinese students who were attacking them. Recently, Korean news has been repeatedly showing these “violent shots” and so-called proof of weapons, and then saying our violence has seriously impacted the Korean people's patriotic pride. Now, the Korean government has gone so far as to demand China apologize for this.
媒体，政府是一片讨伐的声音，韩国人民当然也对中国人的憎恨到达了极限。他们已经在网上公布了那天带头“闹事”的中国学生的姓名，学校，电话号码等资料。据说，很多中国学生现在手机都不敢开，因为总有人会打恐吓电话，或是乱骂。我们现在晚上都不敢出门，因为很难保证路上遇见韩国人，会挨打什么的。
前一阵子就有韩国学生嘴里喊着“打的就是中国人”而故意把清州一个中国学生给打了。现在27号这么一闹，中国留学生在韩国真是处境太危险了。因为韩国人不像西方人那样，懂得人权，平等什么的，他们其实就是随便动拳头的莽夫。比如，在美国的中国人可以去CNN门口示威，只要有分寸，是合法的，美国人也不能怎么样。可是在韩国，这不可能。他们会野蛮的动用武力。27号，我们学校一个学生只是在ZD份子面前举起了国旗，就被警察当作闹事者制服了。所以，我们在韩国不能像在美国或者别的国家那样自由的争取权利和尊重。
现在，韩国警方已经把几个留学生带走了，好像说要严惩。各个学校的学生会长和一些留学生负责人也遭到人生安全的恐吓。韩国人说要让中国人看看，他们也不是好惹的。还有人悬赏捉住我们带头的那几个留学生。我们只是出来留学的人，平时在韩国受尽他们的鄙视和侮辱不说，就算是支援圣火传递的那一天，表达自己的爱国情绪，到最后都是这样的结果。这么一来，中国学生在韩国，只能越来越危险，越来越没有地位。
Just a while back Korean students kept saying “it's the Chinese who are beating people”, but then went out themselves and beat up one Chinese student in Cheongju. Since the ruckus on the 27th, Chinese exchange students in Korea are in a really dangerous spot. Koreans aren't like Westerners, who understand what human rights and equality, etc. are. Koreans are actually just boors who will strike out at any time. For example, Chinese in the US can go demonstrate at CNN's front door, and as long as it stays within limits it's legal, and Americans can't do anything about it. But in Korea, this would be impossible. They would barbarically turn to violence. On the 27th, one student from our campus only so much as raised a flag in front of one Free Tibetter and was then held down by police, saying s/he was an instigator. This is why we here in Korea can't freely fight for our rights or respect like those in America or other countries.
Now, Korean police have already taken away several exchange students, who it looks like are going to be penalized. Every student society president at every campus and several exchange student organizers have all received threats to their safety. Koreans are saying they're going to show the Chinese people that they are not to be messed around with. Then there are people putting out rewards for whoever catches the few of us who organized this. We're just here as exchange students. Most of the time when we're faced with discrimination and insults from the Koreans, we keep quiet, and now because of that one day we went to show our support for the Sacred Torch Relay, and express our patriotic sentiments, this is how it turns out. If things go on as they are, Chinese students in Korea will only be in more and more danger, with less and less to hold onto.
我是女生，也许还稍微好一点。我想提醒在韩国所有的留学生们，尤其是男生。在晚上或者是中国人少的地方，一定要保护自己的安全，不要随便的和韩国人发生冲突，否则，受伤害的只有我们。韩国的中国大使馆门口现在已经每天都被韩国示威的人们包围了。使馆的人们也很危险。但是，中国一定不能道歉。我们正当爱国，我们没有错，凭什么道歉？？？？大使馆要是不能保护留学生的安全，以后还有谁敢在国外爱国？？？
（PS:今天看到咱们在海外求学的同胞被韩国人打破头的照片，才明白真相，韩国媒体真他妈的比CNN还要CNN！！！那个畜生不如的混蛋不抢我国旗，撕我国旗，我们在海外求学的同胞怎么可能去和他冲突！！靠！！这世界还有没公道！！！）
(PS: Today I saw the pictures of our compatriots studying abroad after having been beaten by the Koreans, and then I understood the truth. Korean media, you're more fracking CNN than CNN itself!!! If those SOB beasts hadn't gone grabbing at our flags, ripping our flags, then our compatriots studying overseas wouldn't have clashed with them!! Frack!! Is there no justice on this earth??!)
——————————————————
在Youtube上引起轰动的一段中国留学生殴打韩国抗议者视频：
发表时间：2008-05-2
本文链接：中国留韩学生喊冤:韩国人疯了！(视频)
关键字：留学生, 韩国, 视频, 殴打
申明：除注明外均为原创,若需转载或引用，请注明来自河蟹上岸和原文链接.
Link to this post: Chinese students in Korea cry foul: The Koreans have gone crazy! (video)
Keywords: Exchange students, Korea, video, beatings
Disclaimer: Aside from stating this to be an original creation, if reposted, please state clearly that it comes from River Crab Goes Shore and link back to the original.
And a portion of the comments on River Crab's post:
1.
yesdo 2008-05-2, 8:28 am
脑残狼孩
2.
sttony 2008-05-2, 9:32 am
如果突然有一天韩国的上万大学生突然在北京示威游行，并且对占少数的中国示威者施加暴力。我们对韩国人的影响将会如何？不过这个假设的前提条件不成立，在北京示威游行是不可能通过“有关部门”批准的。
3.
xxoo 2008-05-2, 9:35 am
难以用语言形容
4.
路过 2008-05-2, 9:36 am
没救了
5.
夜彷徨 2008-05-2, 10:24 am
首先27日在韩国的圣火传递过程 在国内报道了吗
为什么几天后才浮出水面
在终点的宾馆里 确实有国人动手打人 还被人拍下证据了就不要不承认 那是在韩国 有韩国的法规 韩国*文明用语*也要有他自己的威信 不可能欺负到自己头上了还憋屈着
这事闹大了会不会再来个抵制韩国货……PS：韩国的朋友要小心了 注意安全；有国外媒体职责中国没有道歉（不过貌似说要去看望）；韩国好像没有直播那天的圣火传递
媒体都有自己的立场 同一个事实报道不同的侧面而已 不是全世界的电视台都为中国服务 报道些你看不顺眼的就抗议是很不明智的
Why is this coming out only now, several days later?
At the hotel at the end, there were definitely our people hitting others, proof of this was even caught on film so don't bother trying to deny it. This was in Korea, Korea has its own laws. Korea's ‘diplomatic language' also needs to carry authority. You can't go around bullying people then get bent out of shape when it comes to bite you back.
If this gets too big, do you think there'll be a ‘boycott Korea'……?
PS: Korean friends, be careful. Watch your safety. Foreign media are blaming China for not apologizing (though it seems they've said this will be looked into); Korea I think didn't do a live broadcast of that day's torch relay.
Media all have their own positions; one truthful report has different sides to it, that's all. It's not like the whole world's television stations exist to serve China. To protest something just because you don't like the look of it isn't very bright.
6.
警惕 2008-05-2, 10:39 am
你们活该！说什么韩国是资本主义国家，一看就是被洗脑的一群！中国是什么样的国家？自己国家一大堆问题你们敢出来游行吗？跑到别的国家去游行又不知道理性的表达自己的意见，别人发表不同意见，你们像当年的红卫兵一样上去暴打，目无人家的法律，现在尝到滋味了，像文革是一样，无脑子的青年人是被zg利用够了就抛弃的一群，还是去向你们的主子求救吧，看他们会救你们？！
7.
朝南生 2008-05-2, 10:56 am
视频刚开始的部分能够听见一个人理性的声音——不要打人
之后就是一群人在打人后吼出的爱国的声音——道歉
———————————
额滴亲娘啊！那些举着国旗的就是我传说中的同胞吗？
Then as the pack starts hitting people and the ‘love China' voices roar you hear a: 'sorry'
……..
My mother! Are those people waving the national flag my compatriots of legend?
8.
呦 2008-05-2, 11:03 am
楼上说得好！
不知道那些留学生们，有几个是完完全全的评自己的学习成绩出国留学的？！
不知道那些留学生们，有多少父母是官员阶层（以为人民服务的名义敛财阶层）？又有多少父母是富甲一方（官商勾结聚财阶层）？还有多少背后有着丰富着社会背景（狗仗人势阶层）？？
留学生中，有没有父母是贫下中农的？有没有父母是下岗职工的？！哪一个留学生涯，不是靠钱堆砌起来的？！
中国腐败的官员草菅人命的时候，他们怎么没有*文明用语*？城管打死人像打死一条狗一样随意，怎么没有见他们抗议抵制？！！
这些留学生们，倒地是什么样的一群人？？？！！
I just wonder how many of those students were able to go study abroad based totally on their academic achievements!!
I just wonder how many of those students have parents who are high officials (”making” their money in the name of 'serving the people')? And how many of them just have rich parents (the kind rolling in money from government contracts)? And how many of them have stacked social backgrounds (like pitbulls with friends in high places)??
Of these exchange students, how many come from poor farmer families? Do any of them have parents laid-off or unemployed?! Which of these students won't have a career path paved with cash?!
While China's corrupt officials go trampling over lives, where is their “diplomatic language”? The Chengguan beat people to death like they're dogs, and with impunity, so why don't we see them protesting or boycotting then?!!
These overseas students, just what kind of a bunch of people are they???!!
9.
poshi 2008-05-2, 11:22 am
不说谁对谁错了，就觉得那些韩国人变脸怎么这么快，太让人心酸了。
而且…如果说中国人要冷静，那种情况下能冷静吗？那些韩国人直接说你们中国人是杂种，说完了还要说你讲话没素质，如果你是李小龙你把他打扒了还更说不清楚了，人家就说你是暴民。那我们要怎么做？人家指着你的头说你国家的人都是杂种，要怎么冷静？
And…if you say Chinese people need to calm down, can one calm down in conditions like those? Those Koreans said flat-out that we Chinese are inbreds? Once they finish saying that, they say we Chinese don't speak with any civility. Even if you were Bruce Lee and knocked him flat, he'd just say you were a thug. So what are we supposed to do? People point you in the face and say your country's people are inbred, how can anyone stay calm?
10.
poshi 2008-05-2, 11:44 am
楼上有些人显然很冷静呀，觉得爱国就是因为共+产+党吗？那你不爱国你又是什么党？虽然说他们很不冷静，那你又何必这样呢？当事人跟旁观者是不一样的，你别忘了你是旁观者，就算你怎么说他们，你只是一个坐在旁边看热闹的人而已！
11.
死的蚊 2008-05-2, 12:20 pm
韩国人疯了？还是那群“中国留学生”疯了？！！
Coming next, voice-of-a-sensible-part-of-his-generation blogger He Caitou's response to Chinese college students in Korea's cry for help..
Fantastic…
对于其他国家我不发表意见
但对于韩国人，我只对他们的色情电影感兴趣
如日本人传承了中国的优良传统的话，那韩国人简直就接了把5000年的屎
[…] Kennedy of Globalvoicesonline.org has posted an amusing look at a Chinese exchange troll, allegedly living here in Korea, who claims that Koreans are now persecuting Chinese students, the […]
Man, that is so much pure nonsense coming from an alleged Chinese woman in Korea. Here, we haven’t heard a single word of any Chinese getting harassed here yet; it’s not mentioned on any site or TV, no word from people out in the street, yet this freak claims all this is going on.
Wow . . .
@R. Elgin:
Interesting. Say what she claims is going on, though, how much of it do you think you’d hear about? Assuming you’ve tapped into the Chinese community there, is it like she says, that Chinese students have gone from being generally quiet before April 27, back to quiet/withdrawn now? Or has ‘April 27′ carried on with Chinese dorms now covered in CCP flags, arguments on campuses, etc.?
Just in case you or anyone else is wondering, I did stop and check that this one story is in fact something that is getting heavy play in many places across Chinese net-space.
Thank you Chinese people who commented here. I’m in Korea and saw both the video footage and netizen reaction both in Korean and Chinese. I despaired at the ignorant, knee-jerk reactions on both sides in the media and online. Fortunately I saw your rational comments here, and it gives me hope. Thank you.
[…] an interesting report on the Global Voices website - apparently there has been a backlash against Chinese students in Korea, following the […]
There are always extremes on both sides which should be dealt with FAIRLY according to local laws .
SO if this is true, I am LOL, we get punished just because we wave red flags and welcome the torch?????? If this is the case, what is democracy????????????????? I thought we can have different voices in democracy society?????? NO???!!!!!!!!!
China should help ALL the North Koreans pass through to go to South Korea then bill the ROK government and its taxpayers the costs. Watch the S. Koreans’ comfortable middle class lifestyle disrupted as they squirm and complain about higher unemployment and higher taxes when the ROK government imposes a “solidairty/unification tax” similar to what West Germany did after the fall of East Germany to pay for food and oil. Then watch S. Koreans dissing the N. Koreans immigrants as violent, uncouth and dumb. S. Koreans should be grateful that China is keeping the flow of refugees to S. Korea manageable and easier to absorb. China can just as easily open the floodgate. Besides last time I was in Beijing there are equally alot of Koreans living there and less they too become hostages to public sentiment, S. Koreans should learn to be more discerning, become more rational and less prone to violence like the peace loving Japanese people.
@ Knights:
Wow, I’m speechless. You’ve got to be kidding me. Are you intentionally being–for lack of a better word–stupid?
Where in the above post does it say Chinese people are being punished simply for waving red flags and welcoming the torch? It says some violent Chinese people in Korea are potentially being legally punished for physically assaulting other people. You do understand that physical assault and violence is not generally legal in democratic societies, right?
@ Knights:
Wow, I’m speechless. You’ve got to be kidding me. Are you intentionally being–for lack of a better word–stupid?
Where in the above post does it say Chinese people are being punished simply for waving red flags and welcoming the torch? It says some violent Chinese people in Korea are potentially being legally punished for physically assaulting other people. You do understand that physical assault and violence is not generally legal in democratic societies, right?
家再破也是自己家，兄弟再穷也是亲兄弟，再怎么说，也轮不到一个外人说三道四的，更何况，他们韩国人也好不到哪去，自家的事情都没处理好，还敢说三道四，可显现他们的所谓的高素质，据说他们的小学生还有起据说轰动全国的集体强奸案，保守估计100人左右吧，好高的素质啊。我们学不来的。根据以往的事情好像韩国人偷了我们中国人很多东西啊，譬如端午节啊 ，等等，还篡改历史吧。丢人啊。没脸没皮的韩国人啊。
上面用中文写的是外国人吧，别搞这种把戏，想唬我们中国人，伤我海外学子心，可以说计划破产。哦我们是穷，没韩国发达，就没有说话的权利，典型的只许洲官放火，不许百姓点灯的强盗逻辑。你们不是说我们没人权吗，那好啊，给我们说话的权利啊，我们游行的人好像被所谓的高素质的民主国家的高素质的民众打了吧！哎这就是差距吗，我看到了，好高贵的大韩民族哦，一群小偷，强奸犯
在Youtube上引起轰动的一段中国留学生殴打韩国抗议者视频
他们为祖国添烦了。
Those Chinese students swatted with national flag poles really caused China government trouble.
@ Kai, you can call me what ever you want, I respect your free speech. You are a dog who’s barking at your owner (your race), does that make you better than me????????
Read the hint that “. . .the Chinese are fearful of backlash!” There is no action yet, but the way people spit out Nazi racial slurs at Chinese will definitely lead to violence!!!
John, I’m asking around with teachers and others and have not heard anything firm, even on a word-of-mouth level. What I get is that Chinese here are worried (feeling guilty) and are keeping a low profile though.
I’m a bit skeptical about any serious backlash going on because in the time I’ve lived in Korea, I have not seen Koreans to get really physical unless certain radical elements get involved like labor, unionist, and leftist — pushing politics. Koreans tend to get verbal and emotional but not much else. I hate to admit it but they are not as scary as what I lived with back in the states.
Currently there is more concern with American “mad cow” beef rumors and demonstrations against the perceived health risk of importing such, than anything Chinese. I concede that the Korean media is adept at not reporting certain things that the government finds embarrassing but news of such leaks out eventually.
I sincerely hope that there really is nothing to worry about — as I suspect.
translation for Mainland student:
No matter how broken our home is, it’s still our home.
No matter how poor our brothers are, they are still our brothers. Regardless, it’s non of other’s business to bash. Moreover, the Koreans are NOT better than us. They can not even handle their own affairs, and they dare to bash others. This shows their high moral ground eh! Heard that their middle school students (around 100) committed rape crimes which provoked national criticism! We can never catch up with them on their crimes. Shame on Korean’s past and present!
The thread was written by foreigner! Don’t play these games, don’t try to scare Chinese. Don’t try to hurt abroad Chinese Students’ hearts! It’s an agenda. Oh because we (Chinese) are poor, we are not as rich as SK, so we do not have free speech????? It’s called allowing the rich and powerful to trigger a fire incident , but refuse the poor to light lamps. You accuse us lacking human rights? Give us freedom of speech then! Our torch supporters were harrassed and beaten! Is this any different??? I know the so called high moral Koreans are just a bunch of thieves and rapers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ Knights:
I noticed you chose to call me a dog instead of addressing my point.
However, I noticed that I may have misinterpreted your comments. I thought you were intentionally misrepresenting physical assault as merely waving red flags and welcoming the torch…and then suggesting that punishing the Chinese who resorted to violence as silencing their freedom of speech in what should be democratic Korea.
It seemed utterly ridiculous that punishing assault was being equated with restricting free speech.
Upon re-reading your earlier comment, I grant that you may have intended to express your dismay that Chinese people in Korea are fearing backlash for simply being patriotic. Should that be the case, I apologize for misunderstanding you and I agree with you that no Chinese in Korea should be afraid to simply be proud of being Chinese.
Yet, we do have to be realistic and pragmatic (something we Chinese are usually good at) here. If our fellow Chinese managed to piss off a bunch of Koreans by collectively assaulting some Koreans, you’re probably going to feel some resentment from many of your Korean neighbors. It isn’t entirely fair, but it is understandable. After all, many Tibetans and Xinjiang people are collectively negatively regarded for the actions of some of their brethren. When the Japanese prime minister decided to disrespect the Chinese by visiting past war criminals, many of us Chinese decided it was okay to riot, vandalize, and persecute random Japanese and Japanese businesses. It might be wise for non-violent Chinese to distance themselves from the violent ones, to be contrite and condemn violent actions. Believe it or not, it actually is possible to do so without betraying your race.
Honestly, the bottom line is we Chinese should’ve done a better job of stopping our fellow Chinese from resorting to violence. Ultimately, we gave Koreans an excuse to resent us, suspect us, and/or hate us. We failed to control ourselves and now we have to deal with the consequences. I feel bad for the one Chinese guy in the middle of the above video calling for everyone to stop fighting. How easily the mob drowns out voices of reason.
Trying to downplay, ignore, or excuse the violence is only going to make the situation worse as Koreans, like Chinese, will only see that as being disrespectful. Let’s not forget that when the Virginia Tech shootings occured, Koreans actually publically apologized for (in addition to condemned) the shooter’s actions, even when the violent actions of one young man doesn’t represent the entire Korean race. I’m sure many Koreans don’t have a very good impression of us Chinese right now, and the fact that our websites and so many of our fellow Chinese seem so violently nationalistic isn’t helping much. Hey, didn’t we use to criticize Koreans for being too arrogant?
I do condemn the Chinese students who attacked the Koreans…especially in their own country. We Chinese do not tolerate foreigners causing trouble in our homeland either, so we have little excuse to be causing trouble as guests of another country. It is one thing to wave a flag and quite another to be using that flag to hit other people. Likewise, while I understand how the actions of some Chinese people have embarassed the rest of us rational and reasonable Chinese, I do emplore that Koreans keep in mind that the actions of some fenqing does not speak for every Chinese person out there.
By the way, which “Nazi racial slurs” are being used against the Chinese?
@ R. Elgin:
Unfortunately, I do believe there to be plenty of potential Korean backlash against Chinese in Korea, especially against Chinese people doing anything that might be interpreted as causing trouble. Our mutual hope is that such phenomenon be less likely than more likely, and if likely, to be less common than more common. For example, while the Chinese internet space would seem to imply that all of China is frothing at the bits to violently silence anyone who disagrees with them or disparages China, there are still plenty of Chinese people who simply can’t be bothered with such nonsense.
I’ll say this: the fear of backlash is often most poignant in those who have cause to fear backlash.
I’m amused with the Korean vs. Chinese dynamic. With Koreans often having a reputation for being nationalistic, even arrogantly and violently so, facing off against the ever populous tide of Chinese humanity, this has clash of the titans written all over it.
I am saddened to think of any people being harassed or threatened. All people want freedom, safety and chances to live their dreams.
It is difficult to see though how unaware many Chinese people seem to be of the human rights abuses against the Tibetans.
Being American, I know that it is not pleasant to acknowledge that your own government is committing crimes against humanity, as unfortunately the Bush administration is doing right now.
But in the end the truth will serve us all. Tibetan people have a right to be free, just as we all do.
-> You do understand that physical assault and violence is not generally legal in democratic societies, right?
You are telling the wrong people, you should tell this to the French, German, and U.S.A!!!!
->Tibetan people have a right to be free, just as we all do.
Yes, they should be free to live, NOT independent!
If we say we want to live free and make California and Hawaii independent from usa, what would you say?
Just in case you or anyone else is wondering, I did stop and check that this one story is in fact something that is getting heavy play in many places across Chinese net-space.
Yes, the story is. I came across it a couple of days ago. The photos displayed in your post are also all over the Chinese language web, but that does not make them truthful. The photos of the Korean men holding the stone and tool, alleged to have been taken prior to the demonstration, were taken afterwards. Notice the long silver stick in the photo of the man in the PLA uniform. It’s called a microphone. The man is showing the tool to the media. Video footage of this moment is available on Korean media websites. Likewise, the photo of the man holding both items was obviously taken after, not before. In larger, uncropped versions of the photo, one can see reporters loitering around. The origin of those photos appears to be a Chinese netizen named Skywing, whose gravatar is a rabbit morphed into Adolph Hitler. I hope you understand why I migh doubt the integrity of this netizen as well as other online fiction like the story that the Korean man on the bicycle assailed by flying kicks “asked for it” by hitting a Chinese student with a bicycle. There are plenty of photos of the man being hit and kicked, two photos of him holding the bicycle over his head taken from different angles, yet not a single image of him actually hitting anyone.
Having been on the receiving end of unprovoked anti-Americanism myself while in Korea and knowing that the same Koreans who hate Americans don’t like the Chinese either, I find the story plausible, save for the fact that calling a woman a “ 개새끼” is strange. The insult does not mean “inbred dog,” but SOB. Just as we generally limit the term SOB to males in English, likewise, I’ve never heard a Korean call a woman a 개새끼. Insults directed at women in the Korean language, like many other languages, include words like “wh*re” or “b*tch.”
@Knights -> Calm down, Knights. I am on your side regarding China and all of this olympic/tibet turmoil. The way the western media and many western protestors have behaved is unreasonable and offensive to China and Chinese. The situation in Korea is even worse. But when you start shouting and ranting in your comments you don’t come across as someone anyone will listen seriously to.
Your anger is understandable but getting out of control and emotional isn’t going to help make your point. Calm down, stick to the facts (like your excellent point about Hawaii) and bring people over to your point of view. Act like an intelligent, reasonable person and people may listen and agree. Scream like you want to kick someone’s ass (even if that is how you feel inside) and you will just drive people to the other point of view.
‘I despaired at the ignorant, knee-jerk reactions on both sides in the media and online. “
Yes, indeed. I was pleasantly surprised to read a few voices of reason in the comment section of the linked blog in the OP as comment #12 by 国内学生 is more representative of the sentiments of Chinese netizens. To be fair, reactions by Korean netizens are no better.
@tiger
South Korea is quite capable of securing its border with North Korea without China’s magnanimous help.
You are so obviously the real racist troll here.
Thanks Gaoshan for your advice, I will calm down. I will take a break, and come back when I am calm! :-)
Will China find its voice?…
The messy 3-way interaction between grassroots Chinese nationalism, foreign opposition, and the quiet…
Knights said, You are telling the wrong people, you should tell this to the French, German, and U.S.A!!!!>>
You should tell this to anyone, regardless of nationality, who takes part in violence. Even more so when they are guests in a foreign country. Who`s punishing Chinese for being patriotic? They did so in Europe, the USA and Japan with little backlash. Are you so presumptive that you are already accusing Koreans of backlash prior to the actual occurence?
I`m sorry. I`d like to understand your logic, but there`s about as much logic in your posts as in the above message. You should learn some compromise my friend.
Chinese do not deserve to be punished for the actions of a small handful of agitators. But rather than playing the victim card, which won`t suppress Korean outrage, why not accept that they have a reason to be angry? They don`t have a reason to harm people, but they do have a reason to be angry in my opinion.
Kai>>
I don`t think you misread his/her comments at all, nor do I think you need to apologize. His/her argument was silly from top to bottom.
@jonathan
Somebody either can’t read, failed his English comprehension or have no clue about the art of sarcasm and irony, so let me spell it out for you. I wasn’t talking about “securing” the border. The S. Korean military are all so muscular and macho (swoon) that I have no doubt doubt about their ability to keep the North Koreans OUT.
But rather that China should be more humanitarian and open its N. Korean border, so that instead of the current trickle, China can just let S. Korea be flooded with tens of thousands of famished unskilled N. Korean refugees. S. Koreans then have the great opportunity to demonstrate their compassion and moral high horsiness by paying higher taxes to support these underskilled refugees now in their midst and get fired so that their jobs can go to cheaper N. Korean workers.
Wouldn’t you agree that this would be a great way to improve China’s international image and better China-S. Korean relationship? I bet you the S. Koreans would just love that, wouldn’t they? I mean what’s there not to love about higher taxes and greater unemployment.
Ugly Nationalist Chinese riot in New Zealand too. Read the second by second narration of what happened to one observer.
http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/01/ugly-nationalistic-chinese-demonstration-in-auckland/
@Tiger
Speaking of English comprehension, perhaps you misread what this blog was about.
I fail to see how the assault of a handful of protestors asking for greater rights for N. Korean refugees warrants your (admittedly) sarcastic response to the article. You`ve ignored the fact that Korean anger was directed at the assault of the protestors, and has little to do with the protestors` cause at all.
Your argument suggests there is an inherent link between China`s treatment of North Korean refugees, and Koreans` anger at its citizens being assaulted by foreign nationals. But there is in fact, no connection large enough to justify your argument.
Cheers!
@ zhatso:
Tibetan people have a right to be free, just as we all do.
Touching statement and all, but the way it comes across leads me to believe that you think all Tibetans are living under dire oppression with no appreciable level of freedom whatsoever. That’s simply not the case. To be sure, there is some amount of persecution and restrictions against certain Tibetans just as there are for certain Chinese, but the vast majority of them tend to live rather normal lives. Many have valid resentments against Han Chinese, but most of those resentments are no different from the same resentments of minorities everywhere, including blacks, Hispanics, and Asians in the United States.
Chinese governance of Tibet is not perfect and there certainly are conflicts of interest, but it is also not the horrible imaginary place that many pro-Tibetan independence supporters suggest and would like for you to believe. There are appreciable amounts of political, socio-cultural, and religious friction that lead to significant, even violent antagonism, but these blanket calls for “freedom” for Tibetans is probably why the Chinese feel so indignant about Westerners not appreciating just how much they’ve positively contributed to Tibet and Tibetan lives.
For example, think of the systematic and structural elements in the United States that may be disadvantageous against blacks, limiting their upward mobility. Even with admitting those things and seeking to address them, you will still have people on both sides of the fence. There will still be people who moan about being oppressed by the white-man. Yet, there will also be people who appreciate the inherent benefits and possibilities they’ve enjoyed simply by being born in the United States as opposed to many other places. Likewise in Tibet, there is a plurality of opinion towards Chinese governance. Believe it or not, it is entirely possible to appreciate government while criticizing and petitioning to change what you don’t appreciate. Portraying Tibetans as all being oppressed and then clamoring for their “freedom” grossly misrepresents reality and ultimately grossly romanticizes the “Free Tibet” cause.
@ Knights:
You are telling the wrong people, you should tell this to the French, German, and U.S.A!!!!
No, I tell everyone who deserves it being told to. However, as a Chinese person, I have a vested interest in especially telling my OWN people…as should you. If I can’t even control and condemn my own people’s violence, how can I go about telling other people? That you would suggest that we only criticize others without first looking in the mirror is the nature of hypocrisy. Do you want us Chinese to be like the Americans and Europeans or do you want to be better than them? There is a time to fight fire with fire, but this is not one of them.
@ Tiger:
Uh, I don’t think North Korea would be too happy with China facilitating the escape of their citizens out of their territory.
@ Kneecap
My, what a shocker, an armchair general without imagination, never seen one of those before. I suppose if we all live in ivory towers the two may appear unrelated and can be easily isolated on paper for post-mortem analysis. Unfortunately, in the REAL world things are never as clear cut and people always behave impulsively, especially if you are Korean (caution: stereotyping handgrenade here) or a teenager (no stereotyping here) in a large emotionally charged crowd.
And when you are in the throes of passion, whether in a demonstration or in coitus, things inevitably screw up once in a while (if you are married or have a girlfriend you’ll know what I mean, otherwise let it slide and wait until you grow up, alternatively go and ask you daddy). But especially so if you are a demo virgin and some of the context of the situation inevitably gets lost in the aftermath of any demonstration with people for and against the same thing. Sigh, people just don’t seem to think anymore these days.
Now what I really want to know is why the S. Korean police neglected fundamental crowd control procedures and allowed the two groups to get so close to each other anyway.
@Kai
Yup, another case of on pas sprechen inglese. I never mentioned facilitation. All I said was that China should simply not repatriate the refugees and let S. Korea take ALL of them in as per the wishes of some of the S. Korean anti-China demonstrators. Then watch the S. Koreans squirm which will keep them occupied for a while, less they become too upity for their own good.
Equally, if there are Tibetans who wants to leave China and join the DL, China should provide exit permits, but not passports so that once they leave they will no longer be allowed to return. Surely China cannot be blamed for simply allowing Tibetans to leave if they want to. Empty out Tibet, less mouths for China to feed and let India and the West to deal with the problem since they are so keen to host the DL.
Remember the old adage, “be careful what you wish for”.
Now what I really want to know is why the S. Korean police neglected fundamental crowd control procedures and allowed the two groups to get so close to each other anyway.
There were 6,000 police and up to 30,000 students. The photos below of the clash between Chinese students and pro-North Korean refugee demonstrators includes some photos taken from the top of a nearby building, showing how the much larger crowd of students broke through the police line:
http://blog.dwnews.com/?p=36505
@ Tiger:
Your retort was uncalled for.
You wrote “China should help ALL the North Koreans pass through to go to South Korea then bill the ROK government and its taxpayers the costs.”
Last I checked, “help” is synonymous with “facilitate.”
@ Sonagi
Numbers, numbers, numbers, another word for excuses! Ever heard of minority group isolation in crowd control tactics? Identify the radicals, surround them, separate them out and keep them away from the larger, often less radical gestalt to prevent the spreading of provocative sentiment and the initiation or escalation of violence.
Effective crowd control can be achieved not just by “surrounding” the largest group, but also by surrounding the smaller, often more radical group(s), especially if there is a deficit in manpower. (Have some imagination for crying out loud or go learn to play Wei Chi or GO or whatever that board game is call in Korean).
The atmosphere seems festive in the beginning, so I seriously doubt that all the Chinese students who went to support the relay were prepared, equipped and hell bent on violence right from the onset. Consequently, its not the students that needed “surrounding” but the much smaller groups of radical S. Korean demonstrators that the ROK police needed to isolate, not just from the Chinese students but also from the wider Korean spectators/audience.
And this has nothing to do with nationalism or patriotism or why ROK police should control its own citizens and not the foreigners, rather it is plain and simple effective crowd control management lesson 101.
I mean seriously, the Thais did it, the Malaysians did it, the Hongkies did it, hell even the Japanese did it. Now the question is why couldn’t or didn’t the S. Korean police do it. Is their tactical training really that poor compared to the Malaysian or even the wimpy Japanese police???? For shame.
Seems like people really don’t bother to THINK anymore and expect everything to be bottlefed to them.
@ Kai
Okay, sorry I hurt your feelings, better now?
Rather than just highlighting “should help” you should have also highlighted “pass through”. Now, remember what I said before about CONTEXT??? So don’t be too CNN.
And now for English 101, repeat after me “words in a sentence should always be read in relationship to the WHOLE sentence and never just on their own” (jeez, I seriously hope you are not a lawyer or a writer). Otherwise we might just as well be talking gobbledeegook.
Consequently, I never said China should help N. Koreans escape N. Korea, but only that China should help while the refugees are PASSING THROUGH (ie. whilst they are already in China) to go to S. Korea. That’s not too difficult to understand is it???
Inshallah! People REALLY should take some time and THINK more rather than be content to be led like a bunch of bah, baaahh sheeps. Reading is good, but critical thought and reasoning is better and I seriously hope this is not representative of the Asian standard of education. Otherwise its bye, bye Asian Century before it even gets started. So buckle up guys and dolls.
@ Tiger:
LoL, man, stop trying so hard. You’re overcompensating.
@Kai
There are appreciable amounts of political, socio-cultural, and religious friction that lead to significant, even violent antagonism, but these blanket calls for ?freedom? for Tibetans is probably why the Chinese feel so indignant about Westerners not appreciating just how much they?ve positively contributed to Tibet and Tibetan lives.
I usually like your comments, but I think you have resorted to a knee-jerk response here. The situation of Tibetans in China is nowhere comparable to the situation of African-Americans today. And after all the abuse the PRC has subjected Tibetans to since 1951, it is rather naive to think that they should grateful for recent progress in Tibet - regardless of what you think of independence. Recently most discussions about Tibet seem to center on the emotions of Han Chinese students abroad, whose feelings are hurt by Western media coverage of their native country. Just imagine what Tibetans are going through right now in China, where Xinhua is spewing bile on DL and Tibetan culture non-stop, and where there is absolutely no room for legitimate protest. Just take a look at Xinhua or TAR sites, and you know what I’m talking about.
@ Kai
Btw. You get 10/10 for the ability to look up synonyms, but I am afraid its 0/10 for comprehension.
So its a decent effort, but must work better and not just harder next time.
As for the S. Korean police at the relay, they obviously need more training, less they embarass themselves and S. Korea even more.
And I don’t think anything more needs to be said about those disgraceful S. Korean demonstrators. I mean really, grown up adults who should have known better than picking on kids, many of whom are Korean Chinese and who are in S. Korea to learn about Korea.
What kind of an example are these shameful S. Korean demonstrators setting for these Chinese Korean kids and other S. Korean children to emulate. Are they even fit to be parents themselves???
@Knights
“If we say we want to live free and make California and Hawaii independent from usa, what would you say?”
We have political parties here that openly advocate for the independence of California and Hawaii. I take it Knights has never heard of “La Raza” or the Aztlan meme in the Chicano movement?
Heck, why stop there? Has Knights heard of the Second Vermont Republic, the League of the South, the Cascadia Movement, or the Republic of New Afrika?
@Tiger,
Maybe the Korean police were trained by the folks who provided security to the 2005 WTO conference in Hong Kong.
@jack…
What if it was discovered that Chinese government or its spy agency funded all those organizations?
There were nationalistic Chinese demonstrations in Auckland at which demonstrators attacked numerous non-protesting locals.
http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/01/ugly-nationalistic-chinese-demonstration-in-auckland/#more-773
So far the only talk of ‘revenge attacks’ seems to be from the Chinese demonstrators, who have been online talking about taking further reprisals against the bystanders they clashed with.
@Tiger
An armchair general, am I? Does that make you the Admiral? Apparently the anonymity of the internet has also made you a self-professed expert in crowd control as well (let me guess, you have your doctorate in this subject?).
Go back and read the original article my friend. We`re not debating China`s treatment of North Korean refugees. You`ve hardly even touched on the actual subject. What the real issue here is, is should Korean human rights` protestors in Korea be subject to physical or verbal harrassment by large throngs of angry youth who don`t even hold citizenship in their country? In the context of this argument, if you want to talk about anyone being `helped` from one country to another, perhaps you should instead talk about the Chinese students` throwing rocks and wrenches at the Koreans.
There was definitely a failure on the part of the Korean police and I`m sure there were militant Koreans throwing things back.
But never-the-less, it`s nice to see moderate Chinese coming out and condemning the article (which this thread is supposedly about), which seems like it was written to create tension between Chinese and Koreans inside Korea.
And as a word of advice, unless you`re just one of those people who likes arguing for the sake of hearing your own voice, you might be a bit more convincing in your argument if you stopped being so condescending. So far I`ve seen you question everyone elses character and intelligence, in lue of actual support of your point of view.
@Sonagi said, `Maybe the Korean police were trained by the folks who provided security to the 2005 WTO conference in Hong Kong.`
Or perhaps by the Chinese torch security team, who had similar success keeping opposing groups away from one another and especially at keeping protestors away from the flame.
What a laugh some people are… Have to just laugh at nationalists. Savages, all. no matter the country. Cave people. Plenty of empty desert and caves in Afghanistan to live in kiddies, and its right next door to China, not far to walk. You could invade, just like your American cousins. America, China, who can tell the difference anymore.
LingLing:
Didn’t they name a panda that name too? Wowww!! Could it be? A panda is giving people real estate tips.
Anyhow, joking aside. Thanks for the tip. We will look in to right away.
Best
Kain
After reading the entire article and the subsequent commentary and banter, a rational being comes to this conclusion.
China and CHINESE people must learn to differ between China the government and China the people.
The people that live around me seem to have a kneejerk reaction to any official criticism, and if it wasn’t so damned inconvenient it’d be humorous. All the demonization of westerners as not understanding of China or the Chinese is unwarranted.
Example; Roughly 6000 Chinese demonstrated on Parliament hill in Canada. It was a sea of red flags. Did Canadians have a kneejerk reaction? No. Similar demonstrations were held in Toronto, Vancouver, Seattle, L.A. NY, Melbourne, Sydney, etc, etc.etc…
I’ve lived in China for a long time and what most outsiders are just beginning to understand is what some of us on the inside knew years ago. The student body orgs are all run by the government. The heads of the student bodies are all puppets. It’s all a show. Students that normally don’t care about the environment, social injustices, or treatment of anyone outside their immediate sphere are up in arms over some foreigners opinions? Not without some help.
There have already been defections in Australia’s Chinese Consulate. They have already stated what their jobs were. We all know how it works.
It is their job to trigger the ‘Pavlovian’ response in the overseas students, unleashing the well fermented anger and resentment that has been imbedded in the curriculum of blameless self pity and fractured history lessons.
Ask my Japanese friends how they have felt for years about being here? The general mistrust and quiet resentment that froths over anytime a newspaper says something about some warcrime, shrine, or Koz. Add 2 drops of Baijiu and it’s pogrom time.
Anyway, I digress. My Chinese brothers and sisters, please have a close look at the way you treat foreign people in China. Don’t be surprised when others do the same to you.
@ Sonagi,
> The photos displayed in your post are also all over the Chinese language web, but that does not make them truthful. The photos of the Korean men holding the stone and tool, alleged to have been taken prior to the demonstration, were taken afterwards. Notice the long silver stick in the photo of the man in the PLA uniform. It’s called a microphone. The man is showing the tool to the media. Video footage of this moment is available on Korean media websites.
Speaking about photos, I am interested in finding out what parts of those photos and what parts of the story as presented by the photos and the annotations should be trusted, and what parts should not.
Any links to the videos? I do not speak Korean, so need your help. Thanks.
> Likewise, the photo of the man holding both items was obviously taken after, not before. In larger, uncropped versions of the photo, one can see reporters loitering around. The origin of those photos appears to be a Chinese netizen named Skywing, whose gravatar is a rabbit morphed into Adolph Hitler.
Where is the original uncropped photo? What are the sources of these photos? Any links to the netizen named Skywing? Thanks.
> I hope you understand why I migh doubt the integrity of this netizen as well as other online fiction like the story that the Korean man on the bicycle assailed by flying kicks “asked for it” by hitting a Chinese student with a bicycle. There are plenty of photos of the man being hit and kicked, two photos of him holding the bicycle over his head taken from different angles, yet not a single image of him actually hitting anyone.
Before we see any photos, things don’t look bright on the Chinese students’ side — they cannot effectively defend themselves.
LOL. When the Chinese group in the US decided to publish Grace Wang’s personal info John Kennedy & CO and about a dozen others went berserk crying about “those crazy nationalistic Chinese people”. Now that the Koreans had done the same there is not even a whimper about the Korean “patriots” who posted the personal info of all Chinese student union reps online and the threats involved? Am I missing something here?
According to a 2006 PEW poll titled How the World Sees China, Koreans harbor the most negative feelings towards China in Asia. Majority Koreans view both China’s rise in economics and military as negative (60%, 89%, respectively). So the reactions from the Koreans are to be expected.
The good news for China is that Korea has one of the biggest per capita national debt ratios in Asia. In the past decade or so Korea and Japan had to rely on China’s growing middle class to expand their exports market. Without China, Korea’s own economy will be crumble. So sooner or later some big shots in Korea, even if they are China-haters, will probably put a stop to the anti-China sentiments.
At the end of the day, everyone has learned a lesson. The pro-China camp is learning how to show off pride without pissing the other side off. The anti-China camp, especially the Tibetan camp, is learning that there are ALOT more of Chinese around the world who will stand up to the China bashing. This is a useful exercise for everyone.
Baddog wrote:”I’ve lived in China for a long time and what most outsiders are just beginning to understand is what some of us on the inside knew years ago. The student body orgs are all run by the government.”
I presume that Baddog is writing about the Chinese student body orgs OUTSIDE of China, which would make his statement completely wishful thinking BS.
Back in the late 90s I attended a top 25 University in Northeast US and I was the vice president of the undergrad Chinese student association there. The president was a guy born in Taiwan but moved to the US when he was young. We had over 100 students who joined our organization and I do not recall any of the officers were ever contacted by the Chinese government. For anyone who has ever attended a university outside of China, you probably would have noticed that there are VERY FEW undergrad students who are actually Chinese citizens. Since China does not allow for dual citizenships and the cost of education in most developed countries is generally prohibitive to people living in China, most Chinese students are from families who immigrated from China generations ago.
There are a lot more foreign grad students from China but they are all busy studying and doing general TA type of works rather than taking time to play politics.
LA Times had a nice article on this very topic. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-me-chinese26apr26,1,1873248.story
“Though there are signs that the pro-China activities were carried out with the blessing of the Chinese government, there is little evidence that they were orchestrated by Beijing despite the claims of anti-Chinese activists.
“Many were caught by surprise that day by the thousands of demonstrators carrying Chinese flags — some of whom arrived on buses that came from as far away as Los Angeles and Arizona. Anti- Beijing activists alleged that Chinese students were paid to attend by the Chinese government and that the buses were secured by the consulate.
It’s a charge that has been fiercely rejected by Chinese officials and students at USC and UCLA who say the rumors were spread to question the credibility of their support for China. Chinese campus leaders said buses were hired out of pocket or through donations collected from the popular overseas Chinese Internet bulletin board http://www.mitbbs.com.
“There’s no way the government can control us,” said Nancy Yao, president of the USC Chinese Students and Scholars Assn. “We’re doing this all on our own.”
“Any links to the videos? I do not speak Korean, so need your help. Thanks.”
Below is a Youtube link. 1:20 minutes into the video, Chinese students can be seen throwing objects at the NK human rights protesters. There is no photographic evidence of the particular stone and tool, but the video shows clearly that the students were throwing objects at the group.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybHurwRPkKk
You don’t need to speak a word of Korean to understand the female who used a press pass to get past the Korean police into the group of NK group. You can hear her saying several times, “They’re throwing things” while panning the Chinese crowd. At 4:15 a Chinese student is apprehended for throwing a rock. At the very end of the video, the reporter, whose Youtube username is Betharoundtheworld, says something about throwing things at each other. I have seen another video in which some objects were thrown back at the students. Beth answers clearly in the comment section that it was the Chinese who started throwing things. Again, the videos do not prove that Chinese students threw that specific stone and tool, but the videos do show that Chinese students were throwing objects. Everyone should watch this video to see what it was like to be in the middle of that mess:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPIpK_PrevI
“Where is the original uncropped photo? What are the sources of these photos? Any links to the netizen named Skywing? Thanks.”
Scroll down this photo thread for a large shot of the Korean man holding the two objects. A cameraman stands on a stepladder to the left. Other people holding cameras are visible behind.
http://military.club.china.com//data/thread/1011/2006/51/15/1_1.html
Scroll down to the bottom of this Huanqiu photo thread and you can see that the second photo of the man holding the bicycle was taken from far enough away that the photographer was not in any danger and easily could have snapped a photo of the Korean swinging the bicycle and hitting someone.
http://bbs.huanqiu.com/read.php?tid=19065
Meet Skywing, the Hitler bunny:
http://bbs.huanqiu.com/read.php?tid=18615
Skywing is credited for the photos in news stories like this one:
http://www.ce.cn/xwzx/gnsz/gdxw/200805/02/t20080502_15340349.shtml
And I wanted to share this website with our Global Voices readers:
http://2008.163.com/08/0502/09/4AU9U8TB00742437.html
Beneath the photos of Chinese students attacking two different Koreans are gleeful comments. This seems to be representative of Chinese internet commentary. I realize that the anonymity of the internet is the refuge of scoundrels everywhere, but I suspect that many, if not most, Chinese young people feel proud that these kickers, hitters, and throwers defended China.
In Korea, certain protesters are known for violence, namely students, labor activists, and farmers, who often battle police with pipes and firebombs. It was the latter two groups who caused such a ruckus at the 2005 WTO in Hong Kong. North Korean human rights protesters are non-violent, and I’ve not heard of any serious scuffles with the police. The videos above show clearly that Chinese students were throwing things. If the Chinese students were facing Korean students, I might be more willing to think that the exchange of violence was 50/50, rather than 90/10.
ACtually my comments are primarily directed at the overseas students. The government isn’t going to tell them, ‘Hey, this guy is an agent’. Often the ’student’ leaders themselves are agents or are heavily influenced by agents. There was a rash of defections from the Chinese consulate in Australia a yearor 2 ago. According to defectors there was a network of 1000 registered agent provocateur/spy in Australia alone.
At home it’s obvious, abroad it must be cloaked. Chinese abroad are still on a government leash (they have family etc back home).
@ ur chinese friend:
There are some major differences between Grace Wang and this situation.
Grace Wang was lynched for merely appearing in a photo that had Tibet supporters standing behind her. Angry Chinese netizens immediately called for her head, threatened violence, and executed outrageous acts without a single clue as to what she was actually doing.
Here, by the admission of the Chinese side, they threw the first punch and basically mobbed the Koreans over a difference of opinion. Remember, at any protest or rally or demonstration, both sides can be maligned for instigation just by existing. Some Korea apparently said something the Chinese didn’t like and they flying kicked him? Wow. Now, the Chinese in Korea, rightfully, are fearing backlash. And the Chinese side is now trying to confuse the issue by intentionally portraying themselves as being persecuted, not for having physically assaulted Koreans in their own country, but for merely waving flags and being patriotic? Ridiculous.
There certainly is an issue of causation here. Grace Wang was a victim of a witchhunt, while these Chinese are victims of retribution. Does this excuse the actions of the Koreans in posting personal information to encourage illegal reprisals? No, and it being angry at the actions of some violent Chinese students does not excuse randomly targeting any Chinese in Korea either. Contrary to your interpretation of this thread, there have been several acknowledgements and even criticisms of Koreans being hot-headed nationalists themselves. All you’re missing is not appreciating the qualitative differences between the Grace Wang issue and this one.
Based upon what we can read in this post of the words of the Chinese person fearing backlash, many of us (at least myself) are deeply annoyed with what appears to be an inappropriate lack of humility. She neither seems to admit or feel embarassed for the immensely unwise actions of her peers. This reeks of shirking responsibility while playing the victim-card.
I really understand our Chinese students in Korea are facing a sort of anti-chinese feeling by the koreans. Our students were just over-exicted about the torch relay and did not realise they were not in their homeland, they should exprss their support through a more peaceful and calm manner. We all should respect our host. On the other hand, I think the koreans are also over reacted to the students’ behavior. both sides should step back to put himself in other’s shoes/understhand your partner’s thought, and build up friendship. I see President Hu Jintao and Japanese PM Fukuda have made a good example for both nations. That’s what we should learn.
@ Ur Chinese Friend wrote
“When the Chinese group in the US decided to publish Grace Wang’s personal info John Kennedy & CO and about a dozen others went berserk crying about “those crazy nationalistic Chinese people”. Now that the Koreans had done the same there is not even a whimper about the Korean “patriots” who posted the personal info of all Chinese student union reps online and the threats involved? Am I missing something here?”
I empathize with you. We should know by now that JK et al is part of U.S. et al funded government propaganda programs to demonize China. They would do anything to brand China with bad names. Hence the biased articles we see on GVO. They are kinda like CNN, except in smaller scale.
I also notice articles keep referring to pro-China activities were majority by Chinese students studying abroad. They fail to note or intentionally ignoring the voice of people like you and I who are either ABC or been living in U.S. for a long long time who are also pro-China.
@Baddog
I lived in the States since childhood and this time I was showing support of the torch in SF…and no, the Chinese government has nothing to do with it.
@knights and Ur Chinese Friend
Yes…the silence is